Long hose with full-face mask?

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MikeS

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My understanding is that if you’re diving with a full-face mask and have a regulator problem you simply remove the mask to go to the backup regulator, or your buddy’s, and carry a backup mask, in a drysuit pocket, so you can see.

Is it possible, practical, and desirable to use a long hose on the backup regulator? If so, what is the hose routing, and where and how is the regulator attached to the harness when not in use?

Thanks,
Mike
 
but others do:

they stuff the long hose. Ok that sounded weird. they have some bungees, inner tubing, etc around their tank and stuff the long hose back there. When they need it they just pull it out.

This is the practice of those that don't breathe their long hose as a primary.
 
MikeS once bubbled...
My understanding is that if you’re diving with a full-face mask and have a regulator problem you simply remove the mask to go to the backup regulator, or your buddy’s, and carry a backup mask, in a drysuit pocket, so you can see.

Is it possible, practical, and desirable to use a long hose on the backup regulator? If so, what is the hose routing, and where and how is the regulator attached to the harness when not in use?

Thanks,
Mike

Im not a technical instructor but my personal feelings are "YES" use the longhose for your backup regulator if not for your use then for the other divers use.

Remember the longhose has some good benefits during wreck diving or diving in places with narrow passageways. It basically allows the diver, who is breathing through your longhose, to swim in front of you at a distance far enough that you dont get kicked in the face by their fins and so you can squeeze through tight areas one at a time which is difficult with a shorter hose.

Thus a 6ft longhose is good enough for most divers 6ft or shorter. Though i personally carry a 7ft hose because im tall and most of the divers i dive with are around 6'5" too.

Routing it is easy. Just follow the Hogarthian System. There are basically two ways of routing the longhose depending on if its your primary or backup reg. Just follow the setup for the backup reg.

When its your backup reg they tend route it downwards on the divers right valve over the top of the BC along the backplate with the excess hose bungied along the right side (edge) of the backplate. Another option is to tuck it into the waist strap but i personally dont like this idea as i believe it could get in the way of a canister light mounted on the right side. The second stage is then connected to a neck lanyard and hangs in front.
 
Quest once bubbled...

Routing it is easy. Just follow the Hogarthian System. There are basically two ways of routing the longhose depending on if its your primary or backup reg. Just follow the setup for the backup reg.

When its your backup reg they tend route it downwards on the divers right valve over the top of the BC along the backplate with the excess hose bungied along the right side (edge) of the backplate. Another option is to tuck it into the waist strap but i personally dont like this idea as i believe it could get in the way of a canister light mounted on the right side. The second stage is then connected to a neck lanyard and hangs in front.

No, no, no.... You do not ever not ever put a bungie on the longhose! If you had to not be breathing the longhose it would be clipped to the right shoulder D-ring but....

Ok, lets start from the beginning... why are you using a FFM?

From another message board

Exactly what are your reasons for wanting to use a full face mask? These are dangerous pieces of gear which really should only be used when absolutely necessary. Circumstances that would necessitate a FFM are:

1) Swiftwater. A FFM with a five strap spider is necessary to keep the mask securely on your face, as a standard mask and reg would be ripped off in upper class (3+) swift water.

2) Blackwater. Absolute zero visibility presents the risk of impacting or entrapping objects which could dislodge or foul your mask or second stage. The FFM in this case provides greater security, as well as #3 below, commonly associated with black water.

3) Contaminants. The FFM reduces the risk of infection from low level water-borne contaminants, bacteria, etc. High level contaminants require complete hermetic isolation through the use of a vulcanized drysuit directly attached to a helmet with a double exhaust.

4) Hardwire comms. Obviously, when comms are indicated, they need to be hardwire for maximum clarity and reliability. FFM's allow the combination of mouth and nose in a single gas space for voice intelligibility.

5) Oxygen toxicity risk. The FFM wil prevent drowing when an oxygen convulsion occurs. See below for explanation.

Full face masks complicate gas sharing, hose routing, and emergency procedures. They increase your gas consumption, and are prone to freeflow. Using these in cold water makes little sense, as the increased freeflow probability incurred by using the FFM in turn increases the probability of freezing a reg. They shouldn't be used deep under any circumstances, certainly not where gas switches are required. Using a standard half-mask and reg, with proper exposure protection, the only part of your body which is even exposed to the water is your upper lip, and this is a very well perfused area -- meaning that metabolic heating prevents tissue damage from freezing. I have dove in the Canadian arctic with a standard half-mask and reg -- not an issue.

Cumulative (pulmonary) oxygen exposure is not much of an issue on recreational dive profiles, and CNS toxicity is more appropriately managed by lowering the PPO2 of the gas you are breathing, rather than diving an elevated PPO2 and then worrying about convulsions.

I have an AGA Interspiro MKII, and a ScubaPro FFM. I use the AGA when clear voice comms are necessary (hardly ever), and the SP in swiftwater due to its low profile, and the oral/nasal separation, which makes it easy to purge when it floods.

Generally, full face masks present a risk which is not justified in day-to-day diving -- certainly not for recreational open water diving. They are important gear when necessary, but hardly ever necessary.
 
WYDT once bubbled...


No, no, no.... You do not ever not ever put a bungie on the longhose! If you had to not be breathing the longhose it would be clipped to the right shoulder D-

Are you referring to the second stage being mounted to a lanyard around the neck or excess hose bungied along right side of back plate?
 
I'm not familiar with the hazards mentioned with FFM's. I routinely dive with my AGA FFM. When using my FFM, I always carry a spare mask along with a redundant air source (pony bottle) I don't belive they (FFM's) are for everyone but, IMO they have a place in recreational diving. I run a 39" hose on my secondary and clip it on the right side of my bcd.
 
Quest once bubbled...


Are you referring to the second stage being mounted to a lanyard around the neck or excess hose bungied along right side of back plate?

The backup reg's second stage is on a bungie that goes around your neck. The backup reg is NOT on the longhose and is only for you to use in case of emergency, not for donating. The longhose reg is the primary reg and is routed down under the light cannister across the chest from right to left around the back of the neck and into the mouth. If the primary reg is not in your mouth it's clipped off to the right shoulder D-ring. Like this...

intro_profile.jpg
 
WYDT once bubbled...


The backup reg's second stage is on a bungie that goes around your neck. The backup reg is NOT on the longhose and is only for you to use in case of emergency,

No WYDT you might be misunderstanding what we are discussing.

We arent talking about choosing between a fullface mask and a longhose. We are talking about when a diver has chosen to use a fullface mask could they use a longhose as their backup regulator. And the answer would be "YES".

The Hogarthian system has two ways of routing the long hose.

The first way is just as you explained where you breathe through the long hose.

The second way is to breathe through the short hose and store the long hose along the right side of your backplate as i explained.

If a person is using a fullface mask and wanted to incorporate a longhose as their backup reg they would follow the later of the two setups.

But, my question to you was if you were commenting on my statement of a) securing the second stage to surgical tubing around the neck when the long hose is being deployed as a backup or b) securing the excess longhose to the backplate using surgical tubing. As i took this right out of my tech books.
 
Quest once bubbled...


No WYDT you might be misunderstanding what we are discussing.


No, I understand exactly what you're talking about I just think you are completely wrong.


We arent talking about choosing between a fullface mask and a longhose. We are talking about when a diver has chosen to use a fullface mask could they use a longhose as their backup regulator. And the answer would be "YES".


No, you don't use a long hose as a backup regulator.


The Hogarthian system has two ways of routing the long hose.

The first way is just as you explained where you breathe through the long hose.


Nope, the "Hogarthian" system only has one way to route the long hose and it's as I stated.


The second way is to breathe through the short hose and store the long hose along the right side of your backplate as i explained.


Doing it this way is a major CF and is not "Hogarthian".


If a person is using a fullface mask and wanted to incorporate a longhose as their backup reg they would follow the later of the two setups.


A backup reg is for YOU and is on the short hose and is not for gas sharing. A FFM is not recommended (see previous post) for any scenario where gas sharing may be needed. The longhose is for donating and not called a backup. In the Hogarthian system one breathes the longhose and donates it in the event of an OOG buddy. The diver who donates the longhose then goes to his/her "backup" which is bungied under his/her chin.


But, my question to you was if you were commenting on my statement of a) securing the second stage to surgical tubing around the neck when the long hose is being deployed as a backup or b) securing the excess longhose to the backplate using surgical tubing. As i took this right out of my tech books.


My advice is to forget about the FFM unless it's absolutely necessary and to also throw away any "tech" book that tells you to "stuff your longhose"...
 
Don't think full-face and Holgarthian necessarily fit into the same sentance folks... and stuffing long hoses and breathing short ones is definitely outside the purview of Mr. Hogarth... but enough of that, allow me to get back to some issues already raised here.

Why the FFM.

I do a lot of mix diving in cold water on OCS and have not found them useful or appropriate... the opposite in fact. So the question stands... why? If there are no gas switches, I can see it. Otherwise, they belong at the 20-foot stop for decompression... don't they?!

And are a bloody expensive little frill for that... just sell it and use the money for charter fees.


=-)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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