Long hose positioning.

[klauricella]

My sons and I all dive with a 5' hose with no slop or it dangling. I am 5'10" and my sons started at about 5'5" and are now 6'. Are you using standard hose or the miflex.

Kevin

The only problem I have with the 5 foot length, is that when you go short like this, it means you are not routing the hose under a light or pocket, so it is just running around your torso....I prefer the nice tight to my body routing I get with the 7 foot hose routed under my cannister light--the hose stays exactly where I want it to, never moving unless I want it to. With the 5 foot alternative, it can be sloppier since nothing holds it in place....It is not normally an issue while you are holding a horizontal trim, but if you have to take a vertical position for some reason, the hose will start moving....so my complaint only relates to a small percentage of dive times, but it is still an annoyance you don't have to ever endure.....I dont see the negative of the 7 foot hose...once routed, it is awesomely comfortable, and it is easy to deploy...what exactly is the negative to having a 7 foot length? Is it the whole "needing to route" issue?

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[Scott L]

The negative is that it's too long for most people to comfortably route without a can light. Tucking the excess under a waist belt 'works' but the best thing (IMO) is simply to not have the excess in the first place. I've used both a 7ft and 5 ft hose in OW and I know from experience that the shorter option is far more convenient. For me, and I'm an average size person, a 5ft hose routes perfectly across the chest and doesn't get in the way at all. If anything, it's a few inches too short. Ultimately, if hogarthian principles ever make it into mainstream recreational diving instruction (as they should!) there would be a good selection of standard recreational long hose lengths, maybe in 4" increments.

I believe that choosing a long hose length that routes most efficiently for the specific dive environment exemplifies hogarthian principles much more than simply using a cave set up in OW. To each his own.

BTW, the use of the can light to secure the 7ft hose is only practiced because the cave (or wreck) environment requires a hose long enough to share air single file, not because there's any advantage in routing for the longer hose. The idea of using a fake light canister to secure an un-needed 2 ft of hose makes no sense to me at all, unless a diver just needs to make do with a 7ft hose for occasional OW diving. But it's hardly logical to voluntarily purchase a 7ft hose, then do a work around, for primarily OW diving.

Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski, mentions several times (pg. 70, 80) that a 5' or7' long hose are the only options for the long hose. Personally, my larger frame will not permit a 5' hose, so I utilize the 7'er which I have no problem with shoving under my BP waist belt. In addition to the ease of OOG sharing, the streamline benefits are enjoyed on every dive.

 

[danvolker]

My sons and I all dive with a 5' hose with no slop or it dangling. I am 5'10" and my sons started at about 5'5" and are now 6'. Are you using standard hose or the miflex.

Kevin






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I use regular hoses.....it must be the difference between what you feel is "no slop" and what I feel is "no slop"

 

[klauricella]

It is tight against my chest could be the routing from first stage is different.

Kevin

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[TSandM]

I'm intrigued with the clipping idea -- after all, I can't imagine unclipping the hose being all that much more complicated than pulling it out from behind a canister. But what do you clip it TO? I don't have anything on my equipment that would make a reasonable point to secure the loop of long hose.

When it comes to long hose length, GUE used to allow a 40" hose for open water -- but that causes issues with routing, unless you use a right-angle adapter. The 5' hose was also acceptable for OW, but it is a bit short for people with broad torsos. They eventually decided to put everybody in the 7' hose, simply because it standardized things to a greater degree. But if you aren't taking GUE classes, a 5 or 6 foot hose (depending on your torso size) is a very reasonable way to provide a comfortable length of hose without worrying about securing the extra. It's a good compromise for people who aren't using a harness-based BCD. It's not as comfortable for prolonged swimming while sharing gas as the 7' hose is.

 

[halocline]

I have been on charterboats with good sized groups of "average" recreational divers, and come upon several OOA divers over the last decade.....Each time, the ease of swimming with the OOA diver on the 7 foot hose was extremely comfortable to the OOA diver....

I absolutely agree, but I feel that the same benefit for comfortable air sharing exists with the 5 ft hose. To me there's no difference in side-by side sharing. It's only single file where the 7ft length really matters.

As I mentioned before. ideally there would be standard options for recreational long hose length that might start at 5' and increase in 4" or 6" increments. A good way to experiment is to get a hose coupler and try different lengths of standard hoses (like 30" and 36") coupled together until you find the perfect length. Then you can order a hose that length. In fact, my usual dive buddy dives with two hoses coupled together all the time....he's what you might call 'frugal' with dive gear purchases.

---------- Post Merged at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:36 AM ----------

Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski, mentions several times (pg. 70, 80) that a 5' or7' long hose are the only options for the long hose.

Oh come on, think for yourself.... the point is the routing of the long hose, not the exact length. I'm quite certain that Mr. Jablonski would ever object to a long hose of slightly different length due to people being of different sizes, and probably what the book was saying is that those are the two standard hose sizes that DIR allows, not anything shorter. And maybe you don't realize this, but the long hose is a hogarthian idea that preceded DIR anyway, so if you're going to follow a dogma on the subject, you should probably at least go for the correct source.

 

[danvolker]

I absolutely agree, but I feel that the same benefit for comfortable air sharing exists with the 5 ft hose. To me there's no difference in side-by side sharing. It's only single file where the 7ft length really matters.

As I mentioned before. ideally there would be standard options for recreational long hose length that might start at 5' and increase in 4" or 6" increments. A good way to experiment is to get a hose coupler and try different lengths of standard hoses (like 30" and 36") coupled together until you find the perfect length. Then you can order a hose that length. In fact, my usual dive buddy dives with two hoses coupled together all the time....he's what you might call 'frugal' with dive gear purchases.

---------- Post Merged at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:36 AM ----------



Oh come on, think for yourself.... the point is the routing of the long hose, not the exact length. I'm quite certain that Mr. Jablonski would ever object to a long hose of slightly different length due to people being of different sizes, and probably what the book was saying is that those are the two standard hose sizes that DIR allows, not anything shorter. And maybe you don't realize this, but the long hose is a hogarthian idea that preceded DIR anyway, so if you're going to follow a dogma on the subject, you should probably at least go for the correct source.

For recreational, I am pretty sure DIR ( George and JJ) is clear enough that the hose could be 5 or 6 or 7, are some variation for recreational. So it would agree with your stance on recreational use( just not for TEAM use in Cave or Deep).
As to dogma, DIR was not Dogma, it was a collection of ideas that were distributed...many came from Hogarthian, but Hogarthian was known for having all kinds of ridiculous and convoluted configurations--Bill Hogarth Main was affectionately known for this by his friends....he was a tinkerer, always trying to find a different way to do something--to gear for something..Often this got out of hand and crazy..I heard alot of stories about this from Bill Mee and George Irvine ( dive buddies of Bill Main) ....George and Jarrod took what they thought were the best ideas ( quite a few were Bill Main's) , and this became DIR, as a collective.
Any Dogma you see is from those who heard of DIR, and began spreading it in their own dogmatic fashion...this was not the intent when DIR was being explained in the late 90's..I know, I was one of the people doing that explaining back then, and when questions were asked, answers and demos ensued. George was known for giving incredibly detailed answers and explanations, and demonstrations, to divers that had real interests and who asked questions.
Hogarthian would NOT be the correct source

 

[Colliam7]

Do you hold the long hose under your bcd belt strap? Do you hold it in place there by any other method than the pressure between your belly and the strap?

Yes, at times. No.

My preference is to route the hose (7' in my case) under a canister light on my right waist strap, or under a Halycon (stiff-backed) pocket, as danvolker mentioned, or under a pair of EMT shears in a case, also attached to my waist strap. All four methods work for me. If it slips out from under my waist strap, or from under one of the 'anchors', I simply reposition it - not a big deal, AT ALL.

However, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable holding it secured to the belt with a snapbolt.

Out of curiosity, why not? I cannot conceive of the need for, or appropriateness of, attaching it to my waist strap with a bolt snap, break-away or not. Completely unnecessary and may interfere with deployment. But, if it works for you, knock yourself out . . . Where I do use a bolt snap on my primary hose is on the end of the long second stage hose, near the second stage itself - to clip that second stage off when breathing from a deco bottle, or from my bungeed necklace alternate.

 

[arturojgt]

Hi. I'm securing my 7' long hose with a bungee cord and an o-ring to my belt, it feel so good, no more sloppy hose.


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[ScubaInChicago]

My GUE trained buddy uses an 8' hose run under an $8.00 mini-Maglite sheath with a $2.00 steak knife worn on the left of the buckle (he's 6'7"). If you're short, use a 6' hose, "WHO CARES"??? If you can find a single GUE instructor who would not let you take a class because the student is using an appropriate length hose (to the diver) routed in an appropriate fashion, please out them here.