Long Hose in public

[OE2X]

I'll dive with anyone who is not demonstrating dangerous behaviour and habits. Not being a "DIR" diver does not fall into that catagory in any way. It's interesting to note that RTodd and Grajan both demonstrate the very anti-social behaviour that has rightly or wrongly become the hallmark of DIR. If it were not for individuals like Uncle Pug and others, who have maintained their sociable outlook and approach other divers who have choosen not to follow the style of training and diving offered by GUE; I would have to join in with the majority of non-DIR divers in the scorn and ridicule of DIR. I'm just glad that the zelots in DIR are a small and dieing group. Diving is a socialble activity, not one in which exclusivity and exclusion is welcome.

Nicely put. I can understand not diving with a non DIR trained diver on a tech dive, but in normal rec. dives - I'm with you PT.

 

[UnixSage]

It is your job do a buddy check and inform your buddy where they are to find their oct on you. So their should be no worry and you will most likely see them coming.

I was thinking that you may be showing someone with limited expirence a way of doing it that runs afowl of training and in some cases very reciently.
I can see it now:
LongHose: If you need to share air this (holding up the primary) is what I will give you.
NewDiver: What is that arround your neck?
LongHose: That is _MY_ backup.
NewDiver: (Eyes glaze over, head spins, wonders if LongHose has been smoking some of the local plantlife)

I had some "spirited" conversations about why have two divers swapping regs instead of one diver. I get it, I was just wondering how it was in the "real world". I would not want to cause someone undue stress because I was going against their training. I realize that a OOA diver may take the one out of your mouth anyhow but none the less I expected more turmoil reguarding this.

We get regular comments and interest and, on one occasion, a little sarcasm / agression from a DM

That is my biggest fear. I do not want to debate the merits of it which I may not be able to do effectively. Someone *could* argue that my setup is confusing and adds risk. My only defence is that you will always find the reg in my mouth.

We don't dive with random buddies or do solo dives. Not worth it. The team is properly assembled or the dive does not happen.

Dont get me wrong I see the value in that but I am sure I will be doing a lot of random buddy diving this due to the fact I will be vacationing with non-divers so I have no choice except not dive.

I like the merits of the long hose setup but do not want to debate its use. I do know that it is not a DIR only thing. The reason I posted here was for 2 reasons one, plenty of long hose users and two I will skip the messages of why I should not be doing that. My appologies for not keeping it strictly DIR. One other question I have is do you run into that many long hoses while diving.. I am not talking about Florida now I am thinking tropical destinations where the ratio of 2-3 dives per year people go.

And I am ONLY refering to Rec dives

Thanks for all the good info

 

[mer]

Everyone has a comfort level as to what "difficulty" of dive they are willing to buddy with a diver that they are not familiar with, independant of DIR or not-DIR. For me it's about 25' in cold water familiar site, and 40' in warm clear water; anything deeper than that and I've got someone from my regular team (again not DIR dependant) with me. I'll take another diver as a third a bit deeper with a regular buddy in the team.

On vacation, it's rare that we have enough DIR-types to fill the boat, so even though I'm typically diving with my regular team on vacation, we do get questions on the boat about the long hose, other DIR/Hog gear, and DIR dive planning. Typically it's just others' curiosity perked even more when they see us in the water. If we got alot of questions about the long hose, we've been known to do an s-drill under the hang bar on our way back and swim around like that for a while. They way they get to see it in action.

 

[StSomewhere]

Look, anyone with an Air2 or some similar integrated octo/bc inflator has to donate their primary anyway. This shouldn't seem that abnormal to your garden variety openwater diver, since lots of them you'd never consider remotely DIR also have to donate their primaries. Explain it, do a short demo, they'll probably be intrigued enough to make them rethink their own rig, like Overexposed said.

Anyone who rolls their eyes at understanding the only backup air they will have access to, if you ask me, needs their head examined. YMMV.

 

[RTodd]

I'll dive with anyone who is not demonstrating dangerous behaviour and habits. Not being a "DIR" diver does not fall into that catagory in any way. It's interesting to note that RTodd and Grajan both demonstrate the very anti-social behaviour that has rightly or wrongly become the hallmark of DIR. If it were not for individuals like Uncle Pug and others, who have maintained their sociable outlook and approach other divers who have choosen not to follow the style of training and diving offered by GUE; I would have to join in with the majority of non-DIR divers in the scorn and ridicule of DIR. I'm just glad that the zelots in DIR are a small and dieing group. Diving is a socialble activity, not one in which exclusivity and exclusion is welcome.

You are completely missing the point. I am willing to help out newer divers that have a very sincere interest to learn. I am not willing to spend a few thousand dollars to get to a dive destination and have dives blown and made unsafe by diving with a random buddy. Any easy recreational dive with an AL 80 and keeping within rock bottom for me and my normal teammates generally involves at least 30+ minutes at an average depth of 95-100' plus more time looking around at intermediate depths on the way up. On the second dive, we will do basically the same profile but have to swim from the shallow water site they are dopping everyone else on to the wall. You can't do these dives as an easy, safe dive without a DIR teammate.

 

[OE2X]

Look, anyone with an Air2 or some similar integrated octo/bc inflator has to donate their primary anyway. This shouldn't seem that abnormal. Lots of rec divers who you'd never consider remotely DIR have to donate their primaries. Explain it, do a short demo, they'll probably be intrigued enough to make them rethink their own rig, like Overexposed said.

Anyone who rolls their eyes at understanding the only backup air they will have access to, if you ask me, needs their head examined. That's what I would call an unsafe diver. YMMV.

Doing an S drill before the dive with a new buddy that is not DIR trained isn't rocket science. There really isn't a huge learning curve to this sort of thing. The other aspect, is that I'm fully prepared to donate to someone, which means that more than likely I'll have my wits about me. If my BOC goes OOA - no big deal, they either get a reg shoved at them or they take my primary. With the non DIR trained divers I haven't found it to be a problem with their understanding this concept.

 

[UnixSage]

anyone with an Air2 or some similar integrated octo/bc inflator has to donate their primary anyway. This shouldn't seem that abnormal.

Ah, your right I forgot about them, THANKS that does put things in a different light! Anyone having one of them is in the same situtation that I am in. I wonder if you see long hose and BC-Octo? Never dove with one (buddy or otherwise) dont know how it would be controlling BC while breathing from it..

Thanks

 

[Grajan]

I'll dive with anyone who is not demonstrating dangerous behaviour and habits. Not being a "DIR" diver does not fall into that catagory in any way. It's interesting to note that RTodd and Grajan both demonstrate the very anti-social behaviour that has rightly or wrongly become the hallmark of DIR. If it were not for individuals like Uncle Pug and others, who have maintained their sociable outlook and approach other divers who have choosen not to follow the style of training and diving offered by GUE; I would have to join in with the majority of non-DIR divers in the scorn and ridicule of DIR. I'm just glad that the zelots in DIR are a small and dieing group. Diving is a socialble activity, not one in which exclusivity and exclusion is welcome.

PT - I will be less polite. That is total and utter cr##. I am not DIR and I am never likely to be. I love the social aspects of diving but that absolutely does not equate to random dive buddies. I am sure you check your gear very carefully when you dive and I'm sure you don't dive with gear you are completely unfamiliar with. Well here is the reality. Your dive buddy is the most important and potentialy the most dangerous bit of gear you dive with. You better make sure you know how they are going to perform when you REALLY need them and, perhaps more importantly how they are going to perform when they NEED you. Would you pick up a reg you have never seen before from the bottom of the boat and go to 100' on it? Of course not. Then why would you do it with a dive buddy?

I have no problem diving with new people but there will be a very thorough 'gear check' first - equipment, experience, attitude. Then, unless they are clearly very experienced, a shallow practice dive together - do some drills - work out the gear. All the same things you would do with a new piece of gear.

You say "I'll dive with anyone who is not demonstrating dangerous behaviour and habits". Good plan - but how the hell do you KNOW this if you are paired up with them on the boat?

My self imposed rules on dive buddies are based on real experience and are the same self preservation rules I used foir climbing partners. I am not going to put my life in the hands of someone I am completely unfamilar with and I'm not going take responsibility for someone I do not know from Adam. If you think this is anti-social behavior you are really missing the point.

 

[nitroxbabe]

I couldn't agree more.

I am also not DIR, but I dive a long hose and agree with a lot of what they have to say.

Your buddy can indeed be an enormous liability, as a friend of mine can attest to when he was nearly killed by his on a 100' "easy" dive when the buddy panicked and pulled his primary right out of his mouth while he was inhaling. The buddy had enough training, dives, etc. so that you'd not expect this from him. This was their first dive together.

I used to be more liberal about who I dove with but that is all changed now. I will NOT do any kind of challenging dive with a person I am not familiar with. And if I don't like what I hear about their dives & attitude, not even that.

Being social or anti-social has absolutely nothing to do with my decision. I LOVE to be sociable with other divers. But, my safety first and your safety right after that. That's the way it has to be.

PT - I will be less polite. That is total and utter cr##. I am not DIR and I am never likely to be. I love the social aspects of diving but that absolutely does not equate to random dive buddies. I am sure you check your gear very carefully when you dive and I'm sure you don't dive with gear you are completely unfamiliar with. Well here is the reality. Your dive buddy is the most important and potentialy the most dangerous bit of gear you dive with. You better make sure you know how they are going to perform when you REALLY need them and, perhaps more importantly how they are going to perform when they NEED you. Would you pick up a reg you have never seen before from the bottom of the boat and go to 100' on it? Of course not. Then why would you do it with a dive buddy?

I have no problem diving with new people but there will be a very thorough 'gear check' first - equipment, experience, attitude. Then, unless they are clearly very experienced, a shallow practice dive together - do some drills - work out the gear. All the same things you would do with a new piece of gear.

You say "I'll dive with anyone who is not demonstrating dangerous behaviour and habits". Good plan - but how the hell do you KNOW this if you are paired up with them on the boat?

My self imposed rules on dive buddies are based on real experience and are the same self preservation rules I used foir climbing partners. I am not going to put my life in the hands of someone I am completely unfamilar with and I'm not going take responsibility for someone I do not know from Adam. If you think this is anti-social behavior you are really missing the point.

 

[scottmc]

Plain and simple if some is in panic they are going to take the working one and leave you to sort out the rest correct me if I'm wrong.