long hose + bungeed octo for rec diving

[Randy43068]

My opinion is that the 7' hose is obviously appropriate in an overhead environment such as caves but an unnecessary additional piece of gear in recreational open water . You will be diving with buddies that are not trained in its use or its deployment and I could see more of a potential hazard than a benefit to say nothing of the 7'hose's increased breathing resistance.

Diving with inexperienced divers is EXACTLY why you want your primary regulator on a long hose, and your second on a necklace at the ready. The inexperienced diver is the one who is most likely to be in an OOG situation and he/she will grab the first regulator they see.. the one YOU'RE breathing. No biggie, let them take it, you then go to your second.

Gas planning is for a different thread, but this is a situation that shows how limiting an AL 80 can be. Both of you could be screwed if the OOG situation happens toward the end of your dive and the OOG diver and YOU need air to make it back. Did I mention GAS PLANNING?

There is NO increased resistance to breathing a longer hose. It supplies air under pressure, you don't suck air out of it.

In my experience the 5 foot hose will work, but it's not as easy as using a 7 footer even on a "recreational" dive in an OOG situation. An extra 2 feet of hose weights next to nothing and takes very little storage space.

 

[Randy43068]

done

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

If you're a very big built person the 5ft MAY be a little tight to use (as its routed under the right arm). Most people its fine but some large shoulder/chest people could possibly find it a bit tight. Other than that i cant think of any real reason.

7ft is designed so people can exit a wreck or cave in single file - if that isnt an issue then really 5ft is fine.

In the case of a more portly person I can definitely understand the need for a 7' hose.

My only concern with putting a 7' hose on the average rec. diver is the routing around the back of the neck part. Tech divers in general tend to be better trained and dive with people that are better trained. Having a panicked OOA rec. diver come up and yank a primary out the mouth of another rec. diver with the hose wrapped around the back of the neck might cause an even bigger problem. Tech divers that use that routing also train that if they are OOA and get the donors primary to breath off of the reg close to the donor for a moment until the hose can be unhooked/un-looped by the donor.

I really do like the idea of the longer hose and will probably get a 5' hose for my primary. Since a lot of us rec. diver's have gone to using integrated octo/inflators, the longer hose just makes sense since we're taught to donate our primary's anyway. It is also probably something training agencies should consider promoting. But we all know that's probably not going to happen. They still promote having that dangerous-ass snorkel attached to our masks. Which most people quickly find out that when they do their first "real" dives with a dive outfit, the DM is going to "highly suggest" they remove it and put in their bag. But I digress. . .

 

[String]

A 5ft hose loops behind the head in exactly the same way as a 7. Neither are "wrapped around the neck". If done properly its impossible to strangle the diver with it - its not an issue. Photos would be useful here to demonstrate.

7ft routing is my main concern if a diver has a BC as opposed to a wing as you wont have a canister light to tuck it under nor a webbing waist area to fold it into. Also pockets and jacket style wrap arounds may prevent it stowing or being deployed properly. Ive tried my 7ft on a recreational BCD style jacket and couldnt get it to stow and deploy cleanly and neatly.
As a 5ft goes under the right arm, across the chest and then behind the head from left to right it doesn't rely on kit to tuck under or into and is cleaner in my view.

Hoses aren't expensive so maybe worth trying both (or borrowing someones hose for a dive). Im not a fan of big looping snagging hoses which an incorrectly stowed 7ft could cause.

Edit:- as for agency promotion a lot of that is down to instructor. Very few agencies say you must use more conventional hose setups. For example PADI you can use whatever you like provided its effective and most others are the same. GUE obviously say its mandatory (but they dont teach entry level divers), BSAC say the opposite and its not allowed at all. For most others its down to the instructor.
Again, the snorkel thing a lot depends on the instructors view - very few agencies (not even PADI) say the stupid tube must be permanently attached to your mask. Ive seen courses taught in very technical looking gear (one piece harnesses, wings, backplates, no perm snorkels, long hoses) all whilst staying within standards.

Too many lazy instructors hide behind agency standards as an excuse not to try anything new when in fact in most cases no such standards exist.

 

[verybaddiver]

the 'hog' loop requires the donor simply to duck his head down and it will come off (hence not fouling the hose with anything). As for the hose not being fully deployed, you already have far more hose length than you would with the standard hose length...

Clares articles are always well researched : DIR Diver - Why a long hose?

 

[RJP]

Here's my question: is there any reason NOT to use this setup for recreational diving?

No, other than a few bucks to swap out the hoses and the bewildered looks from vacation divers and resort dive boat operators.

 

[RJP]

I'd bet my HID light that people who say the long hose needs some kind of special training for an insta-buddy to receive in an OOG situation has never had it happen and is just guessing.

Intuitively the long hose is likely to be a SUPERIOR choice with an insta-buddy.

 

[RJP]

As a relatively inexperienced diver myself if I were to find myself on group trust me dive...

Forget gear configuration, why would you go on a "trust me" dive in the first place?

Remember, any problem arising on a trust me dive occured ON LAND!

 

[Bismark]

Wow! Thanks for all the great input so far. This is pretty much reinforcing all the reasons I heard from my LDS for why to use the long hose + bungee config.

The thing that struck me was the issue with the hose potentially getting tangled in the snorkel. My SO and I always wear our snorkels on our masks. It wouldn't be a big deal for me to get one that stores in a pocket because I always surface with plenty of air, but my SO/dive buddy goes through his air a LOT more quickly than me, so he will generally use his snorkel on the surface predive while we are waiting for other divers and the DM to get into the water and set to descend if we are in a group on a led dive. Thoughts on how big of a problem this might be?

P-cod

Generally speaking, the conventional school of thought is that long hose and snorkel don't mix. HOWEVER, I really think you should search the posts by Thalasamania or PM him and see how a snorkel can be properly set up to provide a minimum of interference with a long hose deployment. I have to say that Thal made some good points and while my personal preference is not to wear a snorkel for tech dives, I like to keep an open mind about this and consider it from all angles. The manner in which the average "snorkel user" has his/her snorkel attached to a mask is a problem for long hose deployment, but with the right kind of snorkel and positioning it correctly on your mask strap, it appears like this problem is reduced considerably. Before everyone calls me a heretic keep in mind that when we consider the last word in diving equipment and skills to be written, we will cease to be advancing our sport and we will be no different from those who not to long ago said that nitrox was the "devils gas". I haven't tried Thal's snorkel set up myself but I am going to. If a person practises s-drills on a regular basis, I don't see his suggestion as too much of a problem. Just my 2 cents and hope my GUE cards don't self destruct...........

 

[Randy43068]

Generally speaking, the conventional school of thought is that long hose and snorkel don't mix. HOWEVER, I really think you should search the posts by Thalasamania or PM him and see how a snorkel can be properly set up to provide a minimum of interference with a long hose deployment. I have to say that Thal made some good points and while my personal preference is not to wear a snorkel for tech dives, I like to keep an open mind about this and consider it from all angles. The manner in which the average "snorkel user" has his/her snorkel attached to a mask is a problem for long hose deployment, but with the right kind of snorkel and positioning it correctly on your mask strap, it appears like this problem is reduced considerably. Before everyone calls me a heretic keep in mind that when we consider the last word in diving equipment and skills to be written, we will cease to be advancing our sport and we will be no different from those who not to long ago said that nitrox was the "devils gas". I haven't tried Thal's snorkel set up myself but I am going to. If a person practises s-drills on a regular basis, I don't see his suggestion as too much of a problem. Just my 2 cents and hope my GUE cards don't self destruct...........

if you participate in this sacrilege, dangerous practice you will be tossed out of the group!