lionfish in Cozumel

[cvchief]

what impact can it do but killing a bunch? (in the big picture)?

the real question, is what impact will it do if we don't kill them?



the Lionfish in the Atlantic / Caribbean have no real predators after them. They multiply like "bunnies" and they are predators on reef fish. They are a non native species that will destroy current fish populations.

If we don't eradicate them, they will take over the reef and spread to other reefs, and you won't have any reef fish to see on dives.

I am not against killing them. The proper application of violence in certain circumstances is just fine. I just wonder at getting all excited about be allowed to or not, as it seems unlikely to make much of a difference or am I wrong? How many of the little SOBs are deeper than divers? Now if you could make it a commercial venture, I am sure someone could figure out away to fish them to near extinct.... but without the profit motive, is joe diver and his pitchfork really going to make that much of difference? Sure, I'd take one, stab a few and feel like I did something, but would it matter? They aren't smart enough to say to each other "Hey Bob, stay out of Coz, they loco down there. Jim was there just swimming and eating drums and they stabbed his $%$" Seriously, I just wondered. I find it depressing and I get the idea no one has the 'answer' yet.

 

[firstdive2005]

is joe diver and his pitchfork really going to make that much of difference? cvchief quote.

Hi bud! Have you had the chance to see the contents of a lionfish gut? I have seen many fish in their stomachs. So I have had the privilege of dispatching at least enough lionfish so that the fish that where not eaten you get a chance to see. (not to mention the hundreds of lionfish killed by the dms). Now I realize other fish eat other fish too. But if you hang around a lion fish no other fish will go near it because they just eat anything that goes near it. Other predator fish can go near the food it eats after it has eaten because it's satisfied. Lion fish eat as a hobby then go get laid to have more babies right away. Eat, screw, eat, screw, eat, screw, hm if I believed in reincarnation I would want to be a lion fish on the reefs of the Bahama islands. Not on Coz though cuz that's gonna be a dangerous place to be if your a lionfish, at least when those that really love the island dive. Those that really love the island and dont want to partake will just bless those that do.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Let's just play a quick math game. If every diver dispatched only one lionfish, would we not be farther ahead than if everybody sat back and said "There is no need to do anything because REEF is studying them."? Even if you, as a diver are only able to safely kill 2 lionfish a year, then that is two less lionfish on the reef to expeditiously consume reef fish and reproduce like bunnies. One is better than none and if everybody realizes that, then maybe theree is a shred of hope for our reefs. If nothing else, we may delay the destruction of our reefs and have good diving for a couple more years.

I am not against killing them. The proper application of violence in certain circumstances is just fine. I just wonder at getting all excited about be allowed to or not, as it seems unlikely to make much of a difference or am I wrong? How many of the little SOBs are deeper than divers? Now if you could make it a commercial venture, I am sure someone could figure out away to fish them to near extinct.... but without the profit motive, is joe diver and his pitchfork really going to make that much of difference? Sure, I'd take one, stab a few and feel like I did something, but would it matter? They aren't smart enough to say to each other "Hey Bob, stay out of Coz, they loco down there. Jim was there just swimming and eating drums and they stabbed his $%$" Seriously, I just wondered. I find it depressing and I get the idea no one has the 'answer' yet.

 

[cvchief]

Come on, FD, don't be condescending. I said I would be happy to help stab the little buggers. I just asked if it would really help. I was just trying to get a grasp on what good it can really do. I spent a little time reading around the net. Sounds like maybe a concerted killing effort might make lower lionfish density area on a particular reef that might make it a semi-protected area for reef fish to spawn. Again for the record, I didn't say don't kill them. It does seem, however, that studies are going to be important because the 'answer' apparently hasn't been found.

 

[geokr]

Why not have divers aid in correcting the problem while REEF does their fish hugger thing? I am not saying push them totally aside......I am just saying that they will NOT solve the problem their way. They do not want to solve the problem because they do not really believe there is a problem IMO. They just want to study stuff.

I say allow people to act while they go about studying.

I agree with you that we need to be proactive and eliminate these predators at every opportunity, and that includes allowing recreational divers to contribute so long as they do it safely. But I disagree that REEF is just a bunch of fish huggers who only want to study the problem ad nauseum. We need REEF to help define the problem, its extent and maybe, just maybe contribute to finding a permanent solution. REEF is mostly voluntary and the divers who spend their own money to travel the world in the pursuit of protecting the oceans are doing it not because they just love fish but are trying to protect the environment we dive in so we can keep enjoying it in the future as much as we do now. You got a couple of grand of your own money to drop? Go volunteer for a trip and, by the way, it's tax deductable so you'll get a little back. I think you'll find most REEF members are as willing to kill a lionfish as they are to study one. But the studies they do are absolutely necessary and you need to understand that. Without these there will be no knowledge of the extent of the threat, of the populations in jeopardy, no justification for further studies that may lead to a solution via government or private funding, no protection policies, nothing but a bunch of lionfish running wild and people wondering how the hell did that happen. By the way, REEF also promotes lionfish roundups where in one instance over 1400 were taken and quite a few served up for dinner. That's not fish hugging, it's turning the tables on and doing something useful with a predator nobody wants.

Oh, one other thing....the first video in my signature are REEF members cleaning lionfish off a reef in the Bahamas - got 56 in 40 minutes. Their expense. Ate 'em all, too.

 

[Scott L]

I am not against killing them. The proper application of violence in certain circumstances is just fine. I just wonder at getting all excited about be allowed to or not, as it seems unlikely to make much of a difference or am I wrong? How many of the little SOBs are deeper than divers? Now if you could make it a commercial venture, I am sure someone could figure out away to fish them to near extinct.... but without the profit motive, is joe diver and his pitchfork really going to make that much of difference? Sure, I'd take one, stab a few and feel like I did something, but would it matter? They aren't smart enough to say to each other "Hey Bob, stay out of Coz, they loco down there. Jim was there just swimming and eating drums and they stabbed his $%$" Seriously, I just wondered. I find it depressing and I get the idea no one has the 'answer' yet.

Organizations have cleared out reefs in the Bahamas and returned upwards of a year later to find the reefs largely unpopulated by the invaders...

 

[cvchief]

Organizations have cleared out reefs in the Bahamas and returned upwards of a year later to find the reefs largely unpopulated by the invaders...

Now that is interesting and useful info. So hunting them on one reef may protect that area? That is the first encouraging info I have read on here. Pass me a fork....

 

[ScubaSteve]

I know that people do not like it when I call REEF fish huggers but it is how I feel. Just because their members kill lionfish does not mean that that is the direction from REEF - I will not credit the organization just because a member(s) takes the appropriate action that the organization chooses not to suggest. Perhaps I have missed it but everything on their website states very clearly that the appropriate action for a diver to follow when they see a lionfish is to to fill out a form and submit it. I am saying fine....submit a form if you want but kill the lionfish first (if you can safely do so). Why let it take another day or two worth of reef fish for no reason? If they are doing more than what their site says, then good for them but they really should market themselves better. I would have more respect for the organization if I believed that this was actually the direction of the organization and not just a bunch of their members.

Just my $0.02 and YMMV

I agree with you that we need to be proactive and eliminate these predators at every opportunity, and that includes allowing recreational divers to contribute so long as they do it safely. But I disagree that REEF is just a bunch of fish huggers who only want to study the problem ad nauseum. We need REEF to help define the problem, its extent and maybe, just maybe contribute to finding a permanent solution. REEF is mostly voluntary and the divers who spend their own money to travel the world in the pursuit of protecting the oceans are doing not because they just love fish but are trying to protect the environment we dive in so we can keep enjoying it in the future as much as we do now. You got a couple of grand of your own money to drop? Go volunteer for a trip and, by the way, it's tax deductable so you'll get a little back. I think you'll find most REEF members are as willing to kill a lionfish as they are to study one. But the studies they do are absolutely necessary and you need to understand that. Without these there will be no knowledge of the extent of the threat, of the populations in jeopardy, no justification for further studies that may lead to a solution via government or private funding, no protection policies, nothing but a bunch of lionfish running wild and people wondering how the hell did that happen. By the way, REEF also promotes lionfish roundups where in one instance over 1400 were taken and quite a few served up for dinner. That's not fish hugging, it's turning the tables on and doing something useful with a predator nobody wants.

Oh, one other thing....the first video in my signature are REEF members cleaning lionfish off a reef in the Bahamas - got 56 in 40 minutes. Their expense. Ate 'em all, too.

 

[Scott L]

Now that is interesting and useful info. So hunting them on one reef may protect that area? That is the first encouraging info I have read on here. Pass me a fork....

Yes, it was encouraging. It suggests to me that they are territorial unlike their adrift eggs. Prehaps one of the regulars here on the thread can dig up that report...

 

[A2thaK]

IMO I don't see the problem in DM's telling clients about the problem, and if the divers want, handing out spears to stab the lionfish with. Personally, I will be in awe at the reef and all the critters during my dive, but if I happen to see a lionfish, that sucker is getting stabbed!! My MO would not be hunting the lionfish, but I would sure try to shish-kabob one if I saw it. I would get a little thrill, and help the reef. Win-Win.