Lift bags......DIR perspective???

[Jason B]

??!!?? Why the GUE bashing? I hav'nt seen any name calling from the GUE side. Just reasonable answers politely put. Why so angry towards them?

Where did I get angry? I just asked a simple question. Can I not ask a question? (part of the problem with the written word-tones get thrown in that aren't intended.)
As for getting blown off the wreck, I don't care how good you situational awareness is, when the current kicks in, it kicks in. The possibility of getting blown off a wreck is a reality in ocean diving.

Steve, thanks for the answer again (though the "not seeing the big picture" is getting old).

I was reading on lift bags over on TDS and saw a few threads from a few DIR types and they said...

Do you mean a Closed Circuit bag? You don't fill them with a regulator, you fill them with a LP inflator hose, preferably the drysuit hose. You can also orally inflate them, though I wouldn't recommend that at depth.

You would use the drysuit hose. You shouldn't be using a CC bag if you are diving wet.

It was posts like these that prompted my questions. Sorry is it seems that I'm trying to poke a hole in your balloon, that was not my intent. I was just curious (which is human nature). Apologies to all those offended by my simple question.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

You would use the drysuit hose. You shouldn't be using a CC bag if you are diving wet.

I wouldn't say that this isn't necessarily so. The nice thing about a small Closed SMB is that one breath will inflate it, and it's not going to fudge with your buoyancy at all. It only has a few pounds lift, is compact and does the job that it's designed to do quite nicely.

Again I think the preferred method is one way, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't do it the other given a specific situation. Of course I'd like confirmation on this if possible.

I just don't see any issues here.

Most of us couldn't give a rats @$$ about somebody poking holes in anything, as we're all free to choose what we will choose. I think given how this system has evolved when compared to any other free-for-all methodology is it's own filter with respect to much of this banter.

Regards

 

[limeyx]

LOL.

OK let me get this straight. 2 man team, blown off wreck, diver#2 has both posts shot and is on diver #1 long-hose, oh yeah and neither have a CC SMB..........

Need I go any further......lol
....

I sometimes think people are missing the bigger picture at times.

Three man teams are great

In this case:

1) if you are doing a deco dive, then each will have stage bottles. You ascend (per plan) to the next deco stop, switch to stages and shoot the bag from there. If you mean one team member has lost all back gas *and* deco gas, then I guess it just wasn't your day

2) Guy on the long hose can surely handle the reg being out of their mouth for a long enough time to get some gas into the bag. This is a required skill in DIR-F class.

Then next time you go diving, bring a small CC bag (or a 3rd team member)

 

[MonkSeal]

Oh, my bad (or should I say GUE's bad) as their web page shows only two man teams.
http://www.gue.com/Equipment/Config/index.html

The 3rd one is shooting picture so he/she can't be seen.

As for laughing at the no CC bag, I do believe I read that when diving wet a CC bag is not used due to the fact that you do not want to disconnect your only inflation device (wing inflator).

CC bag can be inflated oraly.

 

[Tanked Monkey]

Why not skip the popcorn and answer the question.
Serious question. I'm sure there is a protocol for such an event and was just curious as to what that protocol might be.

Wow, I shouldn't have gone to bed last night (or to work today). I missed quite a discussion!

In this specific situation, I would do the same thing that any (hopefully) competent diver would do. I would break it down into individual issues, and assign priorities. I'm assuming all of these 3 events happen within seconds of each other.

Issues:
1. blown off the wreck
2. buddy goes OOG
3. need to shoot bag
Priorities:
1. give gas to buddy
2. try to get back to wreck
3. shoot bag

In this scenario, my primary responsibility is my buddy's life, so I would first donate my long hose. Then together we would determine if it was reasonable to get back to the wreck. In this scenario it is not, so we would blow a bag together and hope someone on the surface sees it.

In blowing the bag, we would decide, together, which is the best option: either inflating the bag next to my face, or my buddy (breathing my long hose) inflates it with the reg he's breathing. Since my buddy is probably a wee-bit stressed from the OOG situation, I would most likely inflate the bag next to my face.

There's a difference between "best practice" and "when the proverbial doo-doo hits the fan." In the latter situation, I would rely on my training and experience to figure out the best solution (given the circumstances) to get both of us out of the situation alive.

Mike

 

[Jason B]

The 3rd one is shooting picture so he/she can't be seen.

LOL! I was expecting that one.


Steve, Mike, et al, thanks to all for the discussion and again, sorry if I ruffled some feathers along the way as that wasn't the intent.

 

[caseybird]

CCR ain't DIR.



Oh. Thanks.

 

[matt t.]

No offense intended, but to me that seems like an accident waiting to happen - anything that crosses the body from side to side increases the risk of entanglement, and the closer it is to you, the greater the risk. I don't typically deploy the spool until after I put gas in the bag - that way if I lose my grip on anything, I know it's not going anywhere but "up".

I don't use OC bags that often, but when I do, it is only for lifting. In that situation, I always prefer to inflate with a separate bottle that is hooked directly to the bag.

When I have used an OC bag as an SMB (for practice only - I prefer the SCC tubes for actual diving), I have always kept the bag and spool together in my left hand and away from my body when filling the bag. That way, if I lost control of it, I could just let go of everything, and up it goes. As long as the spool doesn't get hung up on something, I know it will eventually unwind and come back down to me.

The other problem I see with your method is that there might be a tendency to tilt the head a little too far upwards, which could throw off your trim (very easy to do in doubles).

If I were to use an OC bag as an SMB on an actual dive, I would definitely prefer to inflate it with my primary (while breathing the backup), because I just feel like that would give me more control over the situation, and wouldn't force me to devote so much of my concentration to positioning my head in the right spot to fill the bag. I guess that's because one of my biggest concerns would be "what would happen if my buddy suddenly needed to share gas at the exact moment that I am fiddling with this lift bag"? It seems like having everything (including my attention focus) in front of me would make it easier to manage that situation.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I'll be interested to hear your comments on my comments.

Well what can I say? Every one has an answer to support their way of doing things. I guess I didn't make it clear that when I blow a bag, the bag and spool is out in front of me, not across my body. There is no "concentration" needed for head position. Tilt your head to the (right) side and exhale. As for the comment about the tendency to put your head back to far throwing off trim.... I dive with my head back against the isolater most of the time anyway. Can't put your head back any farther than that. All of my tech training was through 2 GUE trained instructors, 1 of them a former WKPP diver. What I learned about lift bags works (for ME). Next time I get to Atlanta we'll have to dive together and see what works. As always, YMMV.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

I guess I didn't make it clear that when I blow a bag, the bag and spool is out in front of me, not across my body. There is no "concentration" needed for head position. Tilt your head to the (right) side and exhale.

Forgive me if I'm being dense or missing something obvious, but I don't see how you can exhale into a bag when it's at arm's length (unless it is arm's length over your head, which I'm pretty sure is not what you're doing ).

To be able to exhale and have the gas go into the bag, the opening must be directly over the exhaust tee. If the bag is over the tee and the spool is at arm's length, then as far as I can see, the line has to be crossing your primary second stage. Maybe I am just having trouble visualizing it, since that's not how I do it.

Whenever I have orally inflated a bag, I always used a CC bag and held the bag and spool in the same hand (my left), with any excess line wound up. That way there is no line to catch on anything. After blowing a breath into the bag (actually a sausage), I stretch out the left hand (still holding both the bag and the spool), use the right hand to deploy the spool, and then let the bag go.

My preference is for everything to be at arm's length whenever possible, though.

Next time I get to Atlanta we'll have to dive together and see what works.

I can almost guarantee that we won't be doing any diving in Atlanta - there's no decent place to dive here.

 

[wunat]

Thank you all for the interesting discussion up here. Now I just have to wait for my order to arrive and try them out.