Lift bags......DIR perspective???

[Reinoud]

You need to be able to maintain control of the bag during the inflation of the bag, and then maintain control of the spool as the bag ascends. I inflate my open circuit bag with the "exhalation" of my primary reg. Some people will take the reg out of their mouth (while going to the back up) and inflate a bag with the primary. IMO this invites a freeflow in cold water.

This is how it was thaugt to me during my Fundamentals. And the water was 4 degrees celcius. Use a few short bursts of air te prevent a freeflow.

(and only inflate the SMB so much that you can still hold it and stay in trim! It will grow during ascent).

This is typically a skill you do not want to learn from the Internet but from an instructor. Chances are that you'll miss some of the important details and you will have a hard time to 'unlearn' them during Fundamentals

 

[tstonedvr]

I shoot my bag like that also...it's simple to do and I see no entanglement risk....I pull my bag attach the reel or spool...get it ready pull the bag to my side tilt my head exhale till the bag starts to tug extend my arms some to get it away from my body and let it fly....I have yet (knock on wood) to have any type of misfire as I do this in thought out steps .....I also shoot a bag often to keep my chops up.....YMMV
Yarg

 

[matt t.]

Do you keep the reg in your mouth while you do this? I'd be a little nervous about that - would not want my primary second stage to be anywhere close to something that was headed on a one-way trip to the surface.

What precautions do you take to ensure that the reg does not become entangled in the bag?

You are holding the bag in your left hand a little over your head as you tilt your head to the right (because your reg hose comes into the 2nd stage from the right). Spool in the right hand, thumb and pointer finger tips in the end holes. Give it a few puffs through the reg and let her go. As soon as you feel the bag start up you can let it go. I've never had a problem getting anything caught up "yet" . I think you would have a better chance of getting your second stage caught up in a runaway bag with the hose hanging out there and have less control of the inflation using the purge button vs. exhaling. In my mind it's an unnecessary risk of a freelow. If you NEED to shoot the bag because you're lost, or the up-line broke, etc, a freeflow is the last thing you need. Just my $.02. Take it for what you payed for it.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

You are holding the bag in your left hand a little over your head as you tilt your head to the right (because your reg hose comes into the 2nd stage from the right). Spool in the right hand, thumb and pointer finger tips in the end holes.

No offense intended, but to me that seems like an accident waiting to happen - anything that crosses the body from side to side increases the risk of entanglement, and the closer it is to you, the greater the risk. I don't typically deploy the spool until after I put gas in the bag - that way if I lose my grip on anything, I know it's not going anywhere but "up".

I don't use OC bags that often, but when I do, it is only for lifting. In that situation, I always prefer to inflate with a separate bottle that is hooked directly to the bag.

When I have used an OC bag as an SMB (for practice only - I prefer the SCC tubes for actual diving), I have always kept the bag and spool together in my left hand and away from my body when filling the bag. That way, if I lost control of it, I could just let go of everything, and up it goes. As long as the spool doesn't get hung up on something, I know it will eventually unwind and come back down to me.

The other problem I see with your method is that there might be a tendency to tilt the head a little too far upwards, which could throw off your trim (very easy to do in doubles).

If I were to use an OC bag as an SMB on an actual dive, I would definitely prefer to inflate it with my primary (while breathing the backup), because I just feel like that would give me more control over the situation, and wouldn't force me to devote so much of my concentration to positioning my head in the right spot to fill the bag. I guess that's because one of my biggest concerns would be "what would happen if my buddy suddenly needed to share gas at the exact moment that I am fiddling with this lift bag"? It seems like having everything (including my attention focus) in front of me would make it easier to manage that situation.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I'll be interested to hear your comments on my comments.

 

[Tanked Monkey]

No offense intended, but to me that seems like an accident waiting to happen - anything that crosses the body from side to side increases the risk of entanglement, and the closer it is to you, the greater the risk. I don't typically deploy the spool until after I put gas in the bag - that way if I lose my grip on anything, I know it's not going anywhere but "up".
[snip]
If I were to use an OC bag as an SMB on an actual dive, I would definitely prefer to inflate it with my primary (while breathing the backup), because I just feel like that would give me more control over the situation, and wouldn't force me to devote so much of my concentration to positioning my head in the right spot to fill the bag. I guess that's because one of my biggest concerns would be "what would happen if my buddy suddenly needed to share gas at the exact moment that I am fiddling with this lift bag"? It seems like having everything (including my attention focus) in front of me would make it easier to manage that situation.

I agree with this procedure. Not wanting to sound like a DIR parrot, but this is the exact procedure I learned in Fundies last summer. (this is the DIR forum, right? )

If you inflate the bag from your exhaust tee, there's TONS of things that can potentially get hung up while it's inflating, depending on your body angle. Mask, primary reg, backup reg, first stage, shoulder d-ring, or inflator hose, to name a few.

Inflating the bag at arm's length with a downturned primary reg (to help avoid freeflow) and breathing my backup, entanglement hazards are greatly minimized. It also doesn't block your field of vision as much when it's further away from your face.

Mike

 

[caseybird]

How do CCR diver inflate a bag?

 

[Jason B]

Since DIR is so anti exhaust method and so into the 'what if' game, what if your buddy goes OOA so he's on your long hose when you get blown off a wreck and need to shoot a bag (and you don't have a CC bag). What do you guys do in that situation?

 

[Tanked Monkey]

Uh oh. Here we go! I'm getting the popcorn.

JB - Let's discuss this over a sometime.

Mike

 

[Jason B]

Uh oh. Here we go! I'm getting the popcorn.

Why not skip the popcorn and answer the question.
Serious question. I'm sure there is a protocol for such an event and was just curious as to what that protocol might be.

Mike, I don't drink but we can certainly discuss it. Still planning on trying to head to Rawlings late May?

 

[MonkSeal]

Since DIR is so anti exhaust method and so into the 'what if' game, what if your buddy goes OOA so he's on your long hose when you get blown off a wreck and need to shoot a bag (and you don't have a CC bag). What do you guys do in that situation?

The 3rd member of team shoots the bag.