Lift Bag V Smb

[Oldbear]

I love my Halcyon 1m SMB on a 150' hand reels. I, however, am diving in tropical waters. When I dive chiller waters I would consider a loftier SMB.

When I need or take a lift bag it is for lifting an anchor or something.

I prefer to use my tools for what they were designed to be used for. But in an emergency I am not against adapting to meet the needs.

 

[Veritably337]

In your opinion is it better to orally inflate or attach to LP inflator?

I borrowed a Carter lift bag/SMB combo and it is big and yellow but very hard to work with underwater.

 

[Oldbear]

In non-cold water I orally inflate. Since I have a high tolerance to lower temperature water this has yet bothered me. I have trained using my dry suit inflator hose.

 

[Rich Keller]

This is what you want. Personal Floats Safety Sausage Tubes Your shop would rather you buy two items from them instead of one item from someone else but this fills both needs and saves you money.

 

[tbone1004]

three types.
DSMB-should be small, are for marking your position on the surface and/or asking for things from surface support while on decompression. Deep Sea Supply is my favorite for this

SMB-big mofo that is a come find me I'm lost marker. I prefer green for these to Orange as the orange is very hard to see at dusk/dawn. I prefer these to be closed bottom, so you can hang onto them if you have a buoyancy failure. SOLAS tape and preferably radar markers are ideal for these.

lift bag-can be redundant buoyancy source, for lifting, or for hanging at decompression, but 50lb is more than enough for a safety device, but they should be sized for whatever object you're lifting.

 

[boulderjohn]

Here is my take as someone who teaches the course.

The course clearly says that thinking is changing, moving away from lift bags to SMBs. That is true. That statement in the course is also pretty old--the materials are due for an updating. If you go on to the Trimix course, you will see an emphasis in the materials for staying current with the constantly evolving understanding of technical diving, and this is a good example of that. Thinking has pretty much changed now, and it is good to keep on top of those changes.

I got my trimix training in South Florida a number of years ago, and using lift bags for ascents was all I was ever taught. On every boat in which we dived during that training, everyone used lift bags. Near the end of the course, though, my instructor (TDI) said he was beginning to have second thoughts. Dive boat operators were telling him it was easier to see and follow SMBs than lift bags.

I was in South Florida doing technical dives for a couple of months again this year, diving in the same area and on some of the same boats as when I was first trimix certified. I did not see a single lift bag being used--nothing but SMBs. On one very frustrating dive, an equipment malfunction kept me on the boat, chatting with the crew during the dive. I watched as they kept track of the SMBs marking the divers below doing their deco. Some of them were huge, and those huge ones were very easy to follow. Of course, the huge ones are harder to inflate, and a smaller one sticking straight up is better than a huge one floating on the surface.

 

[packrat12]

I carry 2 Carter bags with me, the CBPF-35 and CBSS-25. I regularly use my CBPF-35 for DSMB deployments. I like having a big tall DSMB deployed as it should be easier to see. When deployed from depth, you only need 1/3 or less air filled to have it fully inflated on the surface which amounts to a quick burst of air on ascent from the bottom. If I could do it again, I would have 2 CBPF-35s and not use the CBSS-25. The Carter bag is very well made and will last many years of punishment. On the boats in South Florida, it is one of the more common SMBs for tech divers. I had a lift bag but can say I have never used it in the ocean. I also had cheaper SMBs which would quickly blow out from use. I believe Carter stands by his bags. For quick deployment, I use an air nozzle attached to a 2nd LP hose. The CBPF-35 has a self sealing open bottom. It does not deflate on the surface but can be filled by a reg, air nozzle or lp hose. 4lbs weight is needed for it to stand upright.

 

[Colliam7]

All: just starting my tec 40 training and am trying to decide between a lift bag or a SMB.

If you mean you are trying to decide which one to purchase, my recommendation (and what I tell tec students) is to buy both. Seriously. As a technical diver you should be facile in the use of both a (100 lb) lift bag and a 6ft SMB

The PADI Tec Deep Diver recommends a 100lb lift bag marine yellow, but in the supplemental notes/outlines they seem to lean to a DSMB. Which one is it?

As John points out (Post #16), thinking is evolving. The Tec 40/45/50 manual is essentially the Tec Deep Diver manual, in electronic (Abobe) format, and while there ARE obvious changes in the text made to accommodate the restructured course sequence, the majority of material is what was in the original Tec Deep Diver manual. So the differences you see between the manual and supplemental materials reflects when the text was written - the manual text is older, while the supplemental materials are newer and reflect the evolution in thinking..

I can't figure the benefit of a lift bag for an open water deco hang. It would seem to me that a DSMB takes up less space and is more visible on the surface.

A LOT of people have trained with, and continue to use, lift bags for drift decos, and they work quite well. When I took the tec sequence years ago (when it was Tec Level 1 and Tec Deep, vs Tec 40, 45 and 50), I used (only) a lift bag. Today, I still carry both a lift bag AND a SMB. My 6ft Halcyon SMB (or Diver Alert marker as Halycon now describes them) takes up no less space than my 100lb Dive Rite lift bag. But,. just as John observed in his recent FL experience, I have begun to use my SMB instead of my lift bag. It IS more visible at the surface, particularly if there are swells.

And, for clarification, given some of the comments that have followed your post, I presume that your use the expression 'deco hang' it is merely a way to refer to conducting neutrally buoyant decompression stops while drifting, using the line connected to the surface marker as a visual reference (while hovering nearby), and that you are NOT physically hanging on the line.

 

[DevonDiver]

The PADI Tech Deep manual is pretty 'old school'... and not been updated for well over a decade. Lift bags were more popular back then... DSMBs are definitely the more favored approach nowadays.

Lift bags don't have a raised profile in the water - so are less likely to attract the attention/surface support that a taller DSMB would. Also, most DSMBs are sealed or semi-sealed - they won't deflate if you lose tension on the line.

Lift bags may have a dual purpose - but I prefer to reserve their use for only lifting. As some others have said lift bags for lifting....and delayed surface marker buoys for marking your ascent on the surface.

The size/volume/length necessary in a DSMB is determined by the conditions you dive in. Those include wave height and current strength. You need to ensure that the DSMB will be visible.

 

[Veritably337]

A couple of comments:

1- Yes I consider a hang a neutrally buoyant event. I'm not holding on to the line

2- I am going to invest in a high quality SMB. I now understand that the thinking is evolving. ( I already have a lift bag)

Thanks for your help