Lifetime Warranties on Regs

[SparticleBrane]

I too, would like to see this bill.

 

[DivingPrincessE]

I can't find it here. I brought it down to FL after I got it a couple months ago to show my BF. I'll look for it at his place when I go down this weekend.

That sounds like what happened, when I stopped to think about it.

Rather than restore a part with some corrosion, they replaced it. Which is actually what I would want them to do it it was my reg in for a warranty repair.... A flood followed by months of storage could have resulted in some pretty nasty "green" stuff :shocked2:

Yes, they did say "green" gunk was in there.

 

[halocline]

There is the rare case of a regulator warranty working to a buyer's advantage, like princess's but the typical scenario is that you pay far more in annual service fees than the reg is worth over the long haul. At my LDS I believe the charge is about $35-40/stage labor, so a typical warranty service bill is about $125-150. (They also charge labor for "servicing" the gauges) If you spend about $600 on a reg set, in 5 years you will have exceeded the original cost of the gear just in warranty service. So that's about $1500 in total regulator cost for 5 years' use. You'd be better off money-wise, if you were determined to only dive regs that are serviced annually, to just buy a new one every year and sell it on ebay. If you can stretch that to two years use out of each reg you're way better off.

The whole concept of new regs, and the required annual service on them, is a serious money trap in the guise of "safety." And, if you're diving safely, you're NOT depending on your reg for your life. If that were indeed the case, there would be FAR more dead divers, and regulator service would become highly regulated (no pun intended) with serious training and stringent exams for the licensed servicers. Why do you think that basic OW dive training includes the use of alternate air sources, buddy system, air sharing, and CESA?

 

[Thalassamania]

I've known many regulators that have gone five years without requiring any servicing.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

There is the rare case of a regulator warranty working to a buyer's advantage, like princess's but the typical scenario is that you pay far more in annual service fees than the reg is worth over the long haul. At my LDS I believe the charge is about $35-40/stage labor, so a typical warranty service bill is about $125-150. (They also charge labor for "servicing" the gauges) If you spend about $600 on a reg set, in 5 years you will have exceeded the original cost of the gear just in warranty service. So that's about $1500 in total regulator cost for 5 years' use. You'd be better off money-wise, if you were determined to only dive regs that are serviced annually, to just buy a new one every year and sell it on ebay. If you can stretch that to two years use out of each reg you're way better off.

The whole concept of new regs, and the required annual service on them, is a serious money trap in the guise of "safety." And, if you're diving safely, you're NOT depending on your reg for your life. If that were indeed the case, there would be FAR more dead divers, and regulator service would become highly regulated (no pun intended) with serious training and stringent exams for the licensed servicers. Why do you think that basic OW dive training includes the use of alternate air sources, buddy system, air sharing, and CESA?

I pretty much agree, except I buy ONLY used regs. check them out, use them until there is a tiny leak or IP creep or something and then usually just sell it. When I sell it, I am honest and tell them that it needs work, because what sane person would use a used regulator without a complete overhaul anyway?

Often, I can get years use from a reg. without any professional service. The sealed sherwood first stages are unbelievably hardy.

I always soak my regs over night in freshwater and this makes a big difference in longevity in my experience.

 

[Teamcasa]

So, you have decided you can participate and moderate.

Actually, I would not but someone else may have to.

I don't see where this is likely to cause the princess any ridicule. Definately, not by me. I see it as a way to understand exactly what damage was done and what her shop says is the "cost" of repair parts. I've dealt with some pretty ugly regs as many of mine are from ebay via someone's garage/estate sale. I suspect this is one where the shop replaced many parts that could have been restored but that may not be the best way to do warranty work.

Her whole point was lost in that she paid someone to service it and it only cost her $75. What possible difference would it make to the topic to see a list of parts the tech charged the mfg?

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

The "lifetime" deals are not warranties, they are ways to reduce manufacturer's liability and to keep you coming back into the LDS. There is no logical engineering reason, that I am aware of, for a one year, unlimited dives, service interval, I've seen regulators have problems after just a few dives and I've seen others go for a decade without requiring service. Regulator problems tend to develop gradually and do not feature catastrophic failures, the usual symptoms are either slow leaking or harder breathing.
There are not a whole lot of specialized tools required, even though an IP guage is nice, you can do without it.
Failures of that sort are usually taken care of by the manufacturer regardless of service history.
With all due respect, I think it is basically a gimmick. I'd be more supportive if the service intervals stemmed from a knowledge or prediction of mean-time-to-failure or such, but since there are not different recommendations for first and second stages (very different devices) or for diaphragm and piston first stages (also very different devices) or for sealed or unsealed first stages it appears to me to be more gimmick than necessary maintenance.
I do my own regulators, as far as service intervals are concerned, I'd guess that I do some sort of significant adjustment every year or so, but as far as stripping it down and replacing most of the internal parts ... three to five years is more like it.
I would like to point out that most regulator failures that I know of (I mean big failures, like no air or immediate uncontrollable freeflow) occurred right after "professional" servicing.
People need imformation to make their own decisions. They know what the shops and manufacters recommend, it good that they get other views, but your are right when you say that if you "aren't very technical," you might prefer, "that a professional handle their life support gear," (even if the "Life Support Gear" is, IMHO, a bit overblown). It's good that you found a "pro" to keep your gear tip-top, but they are not found on every corner or at every shop.
Knowing how to dive has nothing whatsoever to do with knowing how to service or repair a regulator. I've known lots of really good helicopter mechanics who wouldn't try to get one off the ground. If you understand the mechanism that make a toilet flush, fill and stop filling, and you are comfortable repairing a toilet yourself ... you're probably ready, with the assistance of a good book, to do a regulator.
No one should feel bad if based on a real knowledge of what it takes they decine to do their own regs and take them to someone else. I'm quite capable of doing my own automobile brakes, but I tend to take them to someone else. They key is not to be scared into doing so by folks who want to take your money. Hire others to do it if you don't want to, or if yoiu fell you can't, and do not be ashamed of doing so. But don't do it because you've been scared you into services that really are not needed done by people who are likely not much more capable than you are.
That's just the kind of obfuscation that I was referring to. Permit me, please, to observe that that flight and stay was really not required to be competent servicing Apeks regs, some of the easiest to service regs that exist. It would take a real ham-fisted dufus to "screw one up."

Yeah, you would think so, but then it happens all the time by those guys who think that they must be the end all know all because they are Them.... How would you know exactly What was taught at that course? Have you ever been to one? To become the region tech for a business, it is important to to do just that. And there are screw ups made constantly by the over-arrogant who think they know enough to guide the world... You have a low opinion of service techs in part, for good reason. Because people decided that a factory course in specialized repair wasn't needed. So then you untrained, careless service people who shouldn't be there. And some, even less capable people mucking around with their gear.

On another note. One more pertinent than an attitude towards technicians. Let's talk honestly here. Warranties will lose their validity if they are not serviced yearly, true. If you maintain your reg and clean it properly after Each use, you won't need service that often. But you end up in a catch 22. Have it serviced or lose the warranty.... As a technician and shop owner, my advise is- keep your gear clean and if you have any problem, bring it to me. every couple of years, you may want me to pull it apart and service it, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy. Also, if it has not had use in a long time, let me check it over. It's only your life. If you are one of my regular customers, I don't charge separately for parts anyway. But we have a reputation as the best here. The only shop that people bring their gear to. Ironically, other dive shop personnel bring their stuff to me. hmmm.
I guess I'm happy that I took the training......
I also offer to show people how to service their own gear and trouble shoot problems. Everyone should have an understanding of their life support system.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

I've known many regulators that have gone five years without requiring any servicing.

yep! If you take care of your gear properly, there is no real need

 

[Thalassamania]

Yeah, you would think so,

Yes, based on a bit of experience, I do happen to think so.

but then it happens all the time by those guys who think that they must be the end all know all because they are Them

I don't know who "Them" are, but I've been keeping regulators running well, I suspect, longer than you've been on this planet ... if that makes me one of "THEM" so be it (I thought "THEM" were giant ants that lived in the L.A. drainage channels and fought James Arness).

.... How would you know exactly What was taught at that course? Have you ever been to one?

Perhaps because I've logged more hours at regulator repair seminars than most people have bottom time.

To become the region tech for a business, it is important to to do just that. And there are screw ups made constantly by the over-arrogant who think they know enough to guide the world...

I guess that would be you?

You have a low opinion of service techs in part, for good reason. Because people decided that a factory course in specialized repair wasn't needed. So then you untrained, careless service people who shouldn't be there. And some, even less capable people mucking around with their gear.

It aint rocket science, it aint submersible science, it aint even a dual throat side draft webber.

On another note. One more pertinent than an attitude towards technicians. Let's talk honestly here. Warranties will lose their validity if they are not serviced yearly, true. If you maintain your reg and clean it properly after Each use, you won't need service that often. But you end up in a catch 22. Have it serviced or lose the warranty.

The "warrantee" is not great loss, considering what it costs to mantain it.

.... As a technician and shop owner, my advise is- keep your gear clean and if you have any problem, bring it to me. every couple of years, you may want me to pull it apart and service it, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

Not really, I much rather take personal responsiblity for the condition of my gear, that way I know that it was done right.

Also, if it has not had use in a long time, let me check it over. It's only your life.

No thanks, it as, as you observe, my life. (Ah ... the drama of it all).

If you are one of my regular customers,ut I don't charge separately for parts anyway. But we have a reputation as the best here. The only shop that people bring their gear to. Ironically, other dive shop personnel bring their stuff to me. hmmm.

That's nice ... I guess you must be, "one of THEM!"

I guess I'm happy that I took the training......I also offer to show people how to service their own gear and trouble shoot problems. Everyone should have an understanding of their life support system.

I'm happy for you, but that's no reason for you to expect me (or anyone else for that matter with an opposible thumb that is capable of a precision grip, who can read at an eight grade level or above, and who has a modicum of mechanical ability) to fund your holiday trips.

 

[Cave Diver]

And people say that some of my posts come across as arrogant...