Lets look at things from a different angle.

[PaulChristenson]

The only person I can trust with my safety is ME.... If I get into an OOA situation it is my fault, if my buddy is there to assist me, BONUS otherwise I better be prepared to take care of myself..... Ultimately I am responsible for me

Bump...

Responsibility order
1.Me
2.Buddy
3.Anyone that doesn't endanger the first two...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The first sentence of the first thread reads..."..it seems that a very large percentage of divers are going to rely solely on their buddy to either bail them out of trouble or at least assist."

Team diving as introduced by NWGrateful was describing DIR. Solo mentality/gear represents an opposing viewpoint. This could not be more on point to this thread.

--Matt

No Matt ... my post was not at all about DIR vs solo diving. What I discussed is entirely consistent with the NAUI position on diving. It is also entirely consistent with the PADI, YMCA, and SSI instruction I assisted with when I was apprenticing as a DM. DIR is just one of many (most) training agencies that emphasize diving with a partner. All of those agencies ALSO emphasize the need for self-sufficiency.

I will reiterate what I said ... since you seem so hellbent on misrepresenting it ...

Team diving and self-sufficiency are not mutually exclusive. They are not an "either/or" situation. And they are CERTAINLY NOT "opposing viewpoints". They are simply two approaches to building safety margins into your dive plan. It is up to the individual to determine whether or not they are relevent to your particular situation, and whether or not the risks are worth the rewards of choosing one, or both.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[captain]

I'm not following , Vayu, are you saying your octo is ONLY for you and that you dive with buddies that have NO alternate air source? Who dives with no alternate air source? huh?

I do. The people I dive with have no problem with it.

 

[captain]

DD,

A good point . . . the opposite side of that coin, however, would be the question of whether or not the additional training would be more of an encouragement for new divers to dive solo.

the Kraken

To imply that more training may increase danger is rediculous. The diver with less training may dive solo anyway so he would at least be better prepared if he had more training.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

To imply that more training may increase danger is rediculous. The diver with less training may dive solo anyway so he would at least be better prepared if he had more training.

I completely agree with that statement ... having met more than one "solo" diver whose additional training consisted entirely of purchasing a pony bottle ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[matt_unique]

No Matt ... my post was not at all about DIR vs solo diving. What I discussed is entirely consistent with the NAUI position on diving. It is also entirely consistent with the PADI, YMCA, and SSI instruction I assisted with when I was apprenticing as a DM. DIR is just one of many (most) training agencies that emphasize diving with a partner. All of those agencies ALSO emphasize the need for self-sufficiency.

I will reiterate what I said ... since you seem so hellbent on misrepresenting it ...

Team diving and self-sufficiency are not mutually exclusive. They are not an "either/or" situation. And they are CERTAINLY NOT "opposing viewpoints". They are simply two approaches to building safety margins into your dive plan. It is up to the individual to determine whether or not they are relevent to your particular situation, and whether or not the risks are worth the rewards of choosing one, or both.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

If you were not specifically referring to the DIR definition of "team diving", then by all means I stand corrected. The DIR team diving concept is mutually exclusive to self sufficiency in my opinion. It was only from this viewpoint I posed my text.

--Matt

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If you were not specifically referring to the DIR definition of "team diving", then by all means I stand corrected. The DIR team diving concept is mutually exclusive to self sufficiency in my opinion. It was only from this viewpoint I posed my text.

--Matt

I was not referring to any agency's approach in particular ... whatever term they use, all the mainstream agencies profess to support the concept of diving with another diver. The difference is in how they teach it. The "holes" in the idea stem from what they profess, but don't teach.

Your opinion on the subject of DIR team diving is incorrect. Every DIR diver I have ever dived with is perfectly capable of self-sufficiency ... in most cases, more so than the typical recreational diver. You are confusing a skill with a style ... and they are not the same thing.

That is like saying that a professional basketball player is incapable of playing "horse".

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Kraken]

To imply that more training may increase danger is rediculous. The diver with less training may dive solo anyway so he would at least be better prepared if he had more training.

Captain,

I don't think there was any implication of increasing a level of danger.

Given a specific recreational diving scenario, the level of danger or risk does not increase with the diver's level of training. However, if a diver has a higher degree of training, s/he may put him/herself in a higher degree of risk because of having that training.

The hypothesis I put forth was that there does exist the possibility that an increase in the amount of training a diver receives in self sufficiency my lead to an increased propensity of solo diving.

the Kraken

 

[countryboy]

First, a buddy is someone I choose to share a dive with.. their skills can be less than, equal to, or greater than mine. This way I can share my knowledge with those that know less, and I hope those that posess superior skills will dive wth me and help me along the way as well.

Once we have determined to dive together, how we proceed defines US as a buddy team. The team should dive to the lowest training / capabilities.

If I encounter a situation, (stuck in net) and realise I am buddy-less, the mistake (issue) came well before getting stuck in the net..

Lost buddy, look for ~ 1 min (or per plan, depending on type of dive). END DIVE!
Engage captain / others, start lost buddy search.

If, when Murphy decides to show his face, I pray that I didn't make the mistake of having lost my buddy as well.

 

[mdb]

The hypothesis I put forth was that there does exist the possibility that an increase in the amount of training a diver receives in self sufficiency my lead to an increased propensity of solo diving. the Kraken

Solo Diving, IMHO is the safest mindset. I've had 3-4 OOA divers, not always my "buddies" come after my air when panicked. I always donated the primary. When someone is, in their mind, fighting to stay alive, they will do anything, and the whole concept of "team/buddy" is just a concept.

I prefer to dive alone. I have about 1,200 logged dives and another 600+ not logged. When solo diving, it seems to me, you are fully aware that you must monitor your air/gas, trim, deco time, current, compass, etc. On the other hand, on a new dive site, I much prefer to dive with the locals, the divemasters, and the pro's, and just act like a remora and swim along following them.

The more good training, the better the diver.