Lets look at things from a different angle.

[MSilvia]

Solo divers and DIR/team divers define reliance differently.

What you described isn't 'team diving' as DIR teams define it. It's more like 'diving with a buddy', which is not the same thing.

 

[The Kraken]

I don't think anyone's trying to turn the thread into a DIR or Solo Diving thread.
The posts merely show how certain aspects of other diving philosophies can be incorporated into the recreational diving community to make each one of us a better diver.

the Kraken

 

[tjmills]

I don't think anyone's trying to turn the thread into a DIR or Solo Diving thread.
The posts merely show how certain aspects of other diving philosophies can be incorporated into the recreational diving community to make each one of us a better diver.

the Kraken

Fair enough....just know how easy it is to get into that discussion in depth and there are other places to debate that.

 

[TheRedHead]

With respect to the original question, I think both buddies in an OOA situation highly unlikely and there is nothing to do but to head for the surface if you are not carrying a redundant air supply.

With respect to instant buddies, I always dive with my regular buddy and sometimes we are assigned a 3rd by the DM. My buddy and I are an established team with entrenched behaviors and signals. We try to accommodate the extra buddy, but we let them know that they have to stick with us and it is their responsibility if they want to dive in our team. We often are 20 feet away from each other in good visibility and have never thought it a dangerous practice when we can clearly see one another.

I think if you are assigned as an instant buddy to a team it is your responsibility to follow the team and stick with them. I try and make that clear to 3rd-buddies who are diving with us.

 

[JeffG]

It is my understanding that each team member carries only one reel and one lift bag to adhere to what it is we're talking about here (DIR). You're a better team diver than I am and I take off - we get separated. You proceed to float your bag and your reel jams - you let her fly. With the team diving approach - you are reliant upon your buddy for his/her lift bag/reel.

You can't use this as an example. You are trying to put DIR team ideas on a non-DIR team. Doesn't work, wasn't meant to work.

 

[JeffG]

With respect to the original question, I think both buddies in an OOA situation highly unlikely.

Yep.

 

[pilot fish]

I certainly do and don't have any arguement with what you said.

Why did I ask? Because all too often people get in the habit of blaming everything on their buddy and they become too dependent rather than improving their own skills and comfort level in the water. I think that many organizations also don't teach buddy skills well nor do they set the expectations of what that really is in the first place. Just like in a previous post, having someone within arms reach of you for the entire dive is not realistic or even practical yet if their expectation is that and it doesn't happen....the stress level and possibility of panic has already started. Many times I have heard/read divers expectations that a buddy should watch them every second of the dive...again, not possible but their expectations are as such and therefore they have a bad buddy and when it doesn't happen....stress and the possibility of panic. This list goes on longer than I care to type but I think you get what I mean.

Keeping an eye on your buddy regularly, being within close proximity to aid and being able to assist are all important things to me. Having expectations that are unrealistic is dangerous IMHO as they bring on stress which escalates the possibility of panic. Panic is what really scares the hell out of me as almost nothing can help you or them in that situation

I agree with 100% of what you said. Well put.

 

[piikki]

With respect to the original question, I think both buddies in an OOA situation highly unlikely and there is nothing to do but to head for the surface if you are not carrying a redundant air supply.

Am I just getting too hungry and daft - how would it be different for solo diver or non-solo diver (now separated since buddyless) in OOG? If you are OOG then you are out of it by definition, no? No doggybag. Or one can assume the same level of redundancy for both for ease of comparision - wouldn't both divers be about in same kind of mess? Or were we supposed to assume that all non-solo divers are automatically less able to perform when left alone because they are not solo-divers.

I would assume that some sort of entrapment could be the most common simultaneous OOG - likely or not. Big doo.

Ok, I am not getting anywhere:14:

 

[PaulChristenson]

Am I just getting too hungry and daft - how would it be different for solo diver or non-solo diver (now separated since buddyless) in OOG? If you are OOG then you are out of it by definition, no? No doggybag. Or one can assume the same level of redundancy for both for ease of comparision - wouldn't both divers be about in same kind of mess? Or were we supposed to assume that all non-solo divers are automatically less able to perform when left alone because they are not solo-divers.

I would assume that some sort of entrapment could be the most common simultaneous OOG - likely or not. Big doo.

Ok, I am not getting anywhere:14:

A solo diver to be OOG...would mean that somehow his Redundant gas source is also gone!!!!

Hokie smoke Batman...no air!!!!

 

[matt_unique]

I don't think this thread was meant as a "solo diver" or "DIR" debate. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The first sentence of the first thread reads..."..it seems that a very large percentage of divers are going to rely solely on their buddy to either bail them out of trouble or at least assist."

Team diving as introduced by NWGrateful was describing DIR. Solo mentality/gear represents an opposing viewpoint. This could not be more on point to this thread.

--Matt