Lets look at things from a different angle.

[tparrent]

Pilot Fish got me thinking (ouch!)

First, let me make clear my level of newbieness: I have passed OW and I went on one dive vacation consisting of eight dives with an experienced couple and a dive master (a really good divemaster in my opinion).

The couple I was with are experienced and generally went off on their own. They were seldom within 10 yards of me. In effect, they were not buddies to me. Seeing this on the irst dive I teneded to stick close to the DM on subsequent dives. It wasn't until the final day of diving that I realized I should stick REALLY close to the DM if we were to be of any use to each other.

So the other couple were off doing their own thing even though we had agreed to dive as a team. That means I was not there for them just as much as they were not there for me. My fault for not correcting that after the first dive.

The undercurrent to Pilot Fish's posts I think is "if you don't rely on your buddy because they are too far away, too distracted, too WHATEVER, then how can they POSSIBLY rely on YOU?" After all, if I can't get to my buddy's octo, chances are pretty darn good he can't get to mine either. I am as unreliable as he - BY DEFINITION. You are either both buddies or you are just two fish in the sea.

That's a very good point. How many of us think we are great buddies but our buddies (from the cattle boat or resort) are bozos? If I am not within arm's reach then you better order me some floppy shoes and a red nose as well (do fins count as clown shoes?).

This one post is certainly going to change the way I dive next time (just over a week away!). I WILL stick like glue and if the buddy doesn't like it then I'll get another one. (Actually I am likely to hire a guide for awhile but even then I will there side by side).

Thanks for the perspective Pilot Fish

 

[Diver Dennis]

You're right K. It would have to be taught in a way that new diver would know that being some what self-sufficient would make them a better buddy. It might give them a little higher confidence level in dealing with all types of situations instead of just relying on their buddy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You're right K. It would have to be taught in a way that new diver would know that being some what self-sufficient would make them a better buddy. It might give them a little higher confidence level in dealing with all types of situations instead of just relying on their buddy.

Therein lies one of the major reasons to take a Rescue class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[pilot fish]

DD,

A good point . . . the opposite side of that coin, however, would be the question of whether or not the additional training would be more of an encouragement for new divers to dive solo.

the Kraken

Very good point. I think both should be stressed.

 

[piikki]

Thread after thread, no matter what the topic, it seems that a very large percentage of divers are going to rely solely on their buddy to either bail them out of trouble or at least assist. It may not be your buddy but a DM, Instructor or anyone else you’re diving with or around.

So what happens when both have a problem that “each” diver thinks they need assistance from their buddy?

I was reading a thread (not here) about an OOA situation. Nothing was mentioned other than get air from your buddy or another passing diver. Well, what if your buddy is out of air as well and you’re not diving off a cattle boat?

Another one was about an entanglement issue. Almost every reply I read said have your buddy get you free. Hummmm, what if it’s a big fishing net and your both tangled up as well and unable to free one another?

Ok so it’s not a fishing net but a bunch of fishing line or Spider Wire?

Many things can cause problems that could affect both buddies on the dive. So what are you going to do if your buddy is not there to help? Do you think you might be a Solo Diver at that point?

Just some food for thought.

Gary D.

My answer to the question is: No.

I am new and know nothing but if buddy and I got caught in a big fishing net, if something crashed on us or somehow we ‘were on our own’ for awhile having to solve a problem, I still would not consider myself a solo diver. Just the same as I do not equal buddy separation with solo diving - even though I might have to deal with things alone for awhile. I started the dive with my buddy and I sure wish to end the dive with my buddy.

So, even if I have to do something alone or my buddy cannot for some reason help me at some point of the dive, after I sort myself out I will be right after my buddy again. And I trust my buddy will return to me as well. If she’s not there when I am in trouble, I assume she could be in as much trouble herself, and I have added responsibilities to get myself out, and try to get to her to see if she is worse off. While I am alone, I naturally fend for myself. Diving with buddies should not remove my individual skills – separation will naturally reduce the collective ‘powers’ we might have.

If there is an OOG emergency involving both of us, and my buddy cannot get to me, I do not expect her to die but to get to the surface if she can. Even if it means leaving me behind in unknown state. I would be on my own but again not solo. Just damn alone and in big trouble. If we lost each other before I was OOG (assuming I am trapped and OOG for this to make sense), I can only hope she is not in same situation but on surface getting help.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I understand your point tparrent but it is very important to let the divers you are with any concerns you have about diving with them. It's easy if you're diving on holidays or anytime to be excited about getting in the water and not make a firm dive plan. Being clear with the other divers you are with that you need to have a buddy close to you is important and at your level of experience essential.
In my experience, if you are clear with the person leading the dive before you get in the water they are not going to leave you hanging without a proper buddy.

 

[pilot fish]

Pilot Fish got me thinking (ouch!)

First, let me make clear my level of newbieness: I have passed OW and I went on one dive vacation consisting of eight dives with an experienced couple and a dive master (a really good divemaster in my opinion).

The couple I was with are experienced and generally went off on their own. They were seldom within 10 yards of me. In effect, they were not buddies to me. Seeing this on the irst dive I teneded to stick close to the DM on subsequent dives. It wasn't until the final day of diving that I realized I should stick REALLY close to the DM if we were to be of any use to each other.

So the other couple were off doing their own thing even though we had agreed to dive as a team. That means I was not there for them just as much as they were not there for me. My fault for not correcting that after the first dive.

The undercurrent to Pilot Fish's posts I think is "if you don't rely on your buddy because they are too far away, too distracted, too WHATEVER, then how can they POSSIBLY rely on YOU?" After all, if I can't get to my buddy's octo, chances are pretty darn good he can't get to mine either. I am as unreliable as he - BY DEFINITION. You are either both buddies or you are just two fish in the sea.

That's a very good point. How many of us think we are great buddies but our buddies (from the cattle boat or resort) are bozos? If I am not within arm's reach then you better order me some floppy shoes and a red nose as well (do fins count as clown shoes?).

This one post is certainly going to change the way I dive next time (just over a week away!). I WILL stick like glue and if the buddy doesn't like it then I'll get another one. (Actually I am likely to hire a guide for awhile but even then I will there side by side).

Thanks for the perspective Pilot Fish

You sound very sensable. You'll be ok. Yes, each has to be a good buddy. If you do not like your buddy and think they are unsafe, get another, or stay real close to the DM, but let him/her know. Be mindful of your own safety but be a good buddy too. You'll do fine.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Therein lies one of the major reasons to take a Rescue class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Aaaah, the Rescue course. Good point Bob. I have not taken it yet but I know folks who have and it has made them a lot more confident and therefore better divers. Everyone, including me, can get a lot out of that course.

 

[The Kraken]

Rightly stated, Bob . . .

the Kraken

 

[Zoomer]

The only person I can trust with my safety is ME.... If I get into an OOA situation it is my fault, if my buddy is there to assist me, BONUS otherwise I better be prepared to take care of myself..... Ultimately I am responsible for me