Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau

[kirwoodd]

I am neither a DM or an Instructor, and I will never be one. I cant comment on what they did right or wrong. She died, which is tragic, and I wasnt there, so I cant comment on that.

When I read the original post about the current and the clipping, my first thought was "not this boy". No way. You guys feel comfortable doing that? Awesome. I dont. And if I was the DM I wouldnt let anyone do that unless I was DAM sure that they could handle it.

I really do think that fundementally people are stoopid. I read lots of accident reports (NTSB and the like) and they are VERY instructive. Depressing, but instructive. So often accidents can be avoided by using commen sense ahead of time. People are just way too sure that everything will be fine, and when the slightest thing goes wrong....

I hear all the time about the great times that people have diving on vacation;
with unknown, rented gear,
in unknown waters,
with unknown boat operators,
with unknown DM's.

uh, yeah, no way. Yup, I will miss some of the best diving in the world due in large part to what some people would call paranioa. But EVERY time I am diving I am comfortable, I feel safe and I am not worried.

Oh, and I WILL dive the good spots, it will just cost me more to get my own equipment there.

 

[Thalassamania]

Today too many people in the west believe that organizations, government departments, etc. exist to make the world safe for them. Diving will never be 100% safe nor should it be. It is up to each diver to asses the risk and abort the dive if they feel that the risks are too great for them.
When we are diving in “less well developed” countries than our own we must assume that standards may be different from what we are used to. It is up to us to research the dive sites, it is up to us to check what’s in the tanks, and ultimately it is our lives that are at risk so we should take whatever steps we feel necessary to insure that we understand what we are getting into.

With all due respect, I sympathize with your view.

But tell me this, if a group promotes itself as an authority on an activity, and engages in an exchange of their knowledge concerning said activity for something of value, and declares that the activity is:
safe Pronunciation Key (s

f)
adj. saf·er, saf·est

1. Secure from danger, harm, or evil.
2. Free from danger or injury; unhurt: safe and sound.
3. Free from risk; sure: a safe bet.
4. Affording protection: a safe place.
5. Baseball. Having reached a base without being put out, as a batter or base runner.

and someone is killed or injured as a result of something that is clearly foresable by such an authority, something that clearly demonstrates that the activity is not "safe," what then is the responsiblity (morally, ethically, financially, legally) of the "authority."

 

[rottielover]

My sympathy's to the family, this must be a very hard time for them.

I also have to agree with just about everything said on this board, as a PADI OW diver, I just can't see EVER hooking myself into anything. I have to wonder, if this dive was done as a drift dive if the poor lady would be alive today. It's one thing to drift along with a ripping current, totally another to "fight" a current in ANY way including hooking on/to the reef.

EDIT: forgot to include:

The lesson I've taken from this: If you feel uncomfortable, FOR ANY REASON, thumb the dive... If you don't feel comfortable thumbing the dive, "cause hey that insta buddy paid money to make this dive too", then chances are they are having the exact same thought as you! Use that Thumb!

 

[Ilikeair]

The previous two e-mails basically cover it all except for the one fact that the reef is being destroyed as well. There shouldn't be any debate on this point. Just imagine groups of divers descending on sites where they have to get close enough to hook into (touch) a coral reef under strong current and surge. There is reef contact and damage in Palau from scuba divers happening 365 days a year. Can you believe we are even discussing diving with something called a "reef hook?" Reef hook!!!

 

[kevink]

Who brought this thread back to life, and how the heck did this turn into the bash PADI olympics?

If you are not going to say how your agency would have done better, than lay off the PADI bashing nonsense. I am a PADI instructor, I lived and worked in Palalu for a year (and not on a live aboard), I'll be more than up front about that.

There was more then enough blame to go around in this case. Recreational diving does not imply NO RISK or guaranteed safety. People seem to think if you are not GUE with a BP/W setup you are a knucklehead. Peleliu is some serious diving. Doing that dive on the second day of these people's outing, with a 13:1 ratio was pure insanity.

Do we even know if the guide/instructor was PADI or NAUI? There is a fair smattering of each out there. Just because the Agressor pitches itself as a PADI 5 start doesn't mean there are not instructors from other agencies onboad. Is there a PADI standard that covers how to bring 13 people into ripping current? Not likely. Would common sense have dictated otherwise, heck yes.

On Reef Hooks - -
If you have never been there and dove a reef hook get off the tree hugging environmental banner. Witout hooking in you can cross off about 1/4 of Palau's dives (and the best dives at that). The alternative is to crawl along the bottom in gloves like most Asian divers do, or not do the dive at all. All said and done there is about a 10yd x 40yd area of Blue Corner effected. Only the hook touches, and the diver floats like a kite above the reef. Compare the growth on Blue Corner to anywhere on the west side of Grand Cayman and talk to me about reef damage.

enough said.

 

[Thalassamania]

If you are not going to say how your agency would have done better, than lay off the PADI bashing nonsense.

I've quite clearly stated what could have done better.

Recreational diving does not imply NO RISK or guaranteed safety.

No, recreational diving does not imply no risk or guaranteed safetu, PADI does, repeatedly.

 

[SassyScubaGal]

This does sound like an "expert dive" and I am dismayed that the industry still promotes "trust me" dives, instead of training for the environment ahead of time.

Tell your nurse friend that they can have me for a buddy ANYTIME!!!

Mike, I agree that more home study is needed... and that most agancies do not promote rescues. I don't think that even NAUI goes far enough and they require the most at this date.

As with most accidents, the thing I noticed is that equipment did not seem to be the cause for this incident. Still, we will throw lots and lots of money for additional equipment to make us "safer" instead of applying that money to training -US- to be better/safer divers. If the full truth were known... I would imagine that MOST of all accidents occur during a "trust me" dive.

I totally agree & the problem with these "trust me dives" is that it appears to be becoming standard practice... Case in point: We just booked a live-aboard for Thailand & Burma for areas known to require more experience. A friend, with 2 dives post cert under her belt, insisted on going when another person in our group invited her (he didn't think it was a "big deal"). I tried to tell her that it was beyond her skill level but she didn't listen & is counting on the boat DM to "just stay with her & hold her hand."

To make matters worse, I thought the boat & the booking agent would back me up... Instead an email from them went out stating, "While live-aboard diving is mostly for more advanced divers, many are beginning to welcome the beginner. We recommend you take an advanced cert class while on the boat... We are more than happy to arrange this at a cost of $___. "

I have been on many live-aboards & have battled some pretty rough conditions... Last year I was in the Maldives & we had a newbie on board... Not only did the DMs not give a rip about the "only 60 feet & above" OW requirement, but I saw first hand as they toured her around, deep underwater, in 4 knot currrents. As long as there are paying customers, "trust me diving" unfortunatley takes precedence over safety & experience. Bummer.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Ilikeair, this is a picture of the proper use of a reef hook. See the diver behind me? They are part of another group with no reef hook. As you can see, they are hanging onto the reef with their full hand and some were pretty much laying on it. I have a stainless steel modified fishing hook, approximately 1/4 ", on the end of my rope. Who do you think is doing more damage?

 

[Diver Dennis]

So Ilikeair. Did you let the Aggressor know about your problems through their wecare@aggressor.com program or in person?

 

[Ilikeair]

Kevin,
You cannot possibly belive that only the hook touches the coral. What about fins, hands, the line from the hook etc. I was only there for 7 days and personally witnessed serious damage from all of the above on virtually every hook-in dive and I was with mostly "expert" divers. OK, maybe it is only an area the size of a football field at Blue Corner. I must be brainwashed into thinking we shouldn't destroy coral. Your comment about the damage to Grand Cayman is the exact reason we should be tree huggers and try to save Palau. If you are a dive professional and you don't even care because it is not that large of an area, the reef is screwed.

What if we could not dive some or all of the sites in order to protect the environment? That is EXACTLY what I am advocating. The sites in Palau cannot be visited by the scuba industry without destroying them so people should not go. Once again, I wish I didn't and I am never going back and I am never diving anywhere that requires me to damage a reef.

And, Dennis, believe me I understand how the reef hook is supposed to be used. As you know, the damage occurs when you hook in and touch the reef and then when the line leads away from the hook and rubs on the front and top of the coral head you hooked into. Not once you have inflated your BCD after hooking in and are 2 meters away. You know that. The proof is in the reef. It is already damaged. Anyone with the exprience you have must be able to think this through. If scuba divers of varying degrees of skill are descending upon the reef, day in and day out, hooking into dead or sometimes partially dead coral under a stressful diving situation, there is going to be significant contact with the reef. Compare Blue Corner to the other less-frequented sites. It is more dead.

Lastly, your photo perfectly illustrates my point. We as divers who think we can do this without damaging the reef are still part of the problem even though it may be painful for us to admit. I admit it. I damaged the reef by spending 10K in Palau and making the economics viable for these companies. You did it too even if you didn't touch the reef except with your reef hook. The person behind you grabbing onto the reef is the proof that the diving community should stand up and say this is not working. We cannot continue to dive in Palau on these sites that require a reef hook or holding on and have the reef live. It is a choice. Entertainment for people and a dead reef or we go another way. The choice is yours and ours.