Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau

[Ilikeair]

Dennis,
If there was any living coral left to protect at Chandelier Cave, I would be happy to be an advocate for stopping the damage. Dennis, since this last one was your
11,521st post, maybe you should take a break and think about what condition you want the dive sites to be in another 11,521 posts. You too can become an advocate for the environment and not just the scuba diving industry and yourself.

Keeping damage confined is a good one. How about one better. Let the reef start to regenerate. Remember, the reef is damaged right now, not dead.

What is my solution to stop damage wherever people dive or live near the water? Well, it certainly isn't to go right past indifference and become a proponent for damaging behavior like reef hook mandatory dive sites like you are.

Leave only bubbles, take only photographs. But if you can't get a good photograph without stabbing the reef, maybe you should just download one.

 

[Cacia]

Divers who know enough to have a reefhook don't generally damage the reef, from what I have seen. The effect of the point touching a dead ledge is very insignificant.
Bigger fish to fry, IMV.


YEA, Dennis, just download ! Save your money...all that equipment is getting obnoxious. If you sold it, you could provide even MORE financial support to impoverished schools in Mexico. What kind of person do you want to be, Dennis?

 

[SassyScubaGal]

Divers who know enough to have a reefhook don't generally damage the reef, from what I have seen. The effect of the point touching a dead ledge is very insignificant.
Bigger fish to fry, IMV.


YEA, Dennis, just download ! Save your money...all that equipment is getting obnoxious. If you sold it, you could provide even MORE financial support to impoverished schools in Mexico. What kind of person do you want to be, Dennis?

And how do you propose a diver hook on to what is, for sure, "a dead ledge", when they are careening over a reef in a 4 knot current? Or should I just kick real hard & try to hover in place as I methodically inspect a tiny patch of reef for these readily accessible "dead ledges"?

Too bad the experienced nurse in the very first posting didn't read your response first... Maybe then she could have found one of these "proper" anchoring spots and that coral head wouldn't have come tumbling off (twice!)...

 

[Diver Dennis]

Dennis,
If there was any living coral left to protect at Chandelier Cave, I would be happy to be an advocate for stopping the damage. Dennis, since this last one was your
11,521st post, maybe you should take a break and think about what condition you want the dive sites to be in another 11,521 posts. You too can become an advocate for the environment and not just the scuba diving industry and yourself.

Keeping damage confined is a good one. How about one better. Let the reef start to regenerate. Remember, the reef is damaged right now, not dead.

What is my solution to stop damage wherever people dive or live near the water? Well, it certainly isn't to go right past indifference and become a proponent for damaging behavior like reef hook mandatory dive sites like you are.

Leave only bubbles, take only photographs. But if you can't get a good photograph without stabbing the reef, maybe you should just download one.

You don't actually read these posts do you. Did you see my post to Sassy? The part of the reef at Blue Corner where we hook in is dead. I dive in quite a few places and I have always seen divers grabbing reefs in current. Now, what do you think would cause more damage? A hand grabbing a reef and the diver bouncing up and down on it or a 1/4" piece of metal and hovering above the reef??

Let's hear what you have in mind for saving reefs. You have already accused me of promoting reef damage so now that you have that off your chest, let's hear your solutions. It just seems a little off target to be so upset with reef hooks when there is so much other damage being done.

This is one of the reasons I asked you to fill out your profile. You are the one bringing up my post numbers and I'm sure you have read my profile. What are your credentials in regards to diving? Was your Palau trip the first or have you traveled extensively? It will just give us a better idea where you are coming from.

 

[Diver Dennis]

And how do you propose a diver hook on to what is, for sure, "a dead ledge", when they are careening over a reef in a 4 knot current? Or should I just kick real hard & try to hover in place as I methodically inspect a tiny patch of reef for these readily accessible "dead ledges"?

Too bad the experienced nurse in the very first posting didn't read your response first... Maybe then she could have found one of these "proper" anchoring spots and that coral head wouldn't have come tumbling off (twice!)...

Why would you want to hook into a ledge in a 4 knot current? At best, you better be experienced enough to stay off the reef. Would you rather have them grab the reef with both hands? Again, where did I say that you can hook in anywhere you like?

The unfortunate nurse was out of control on a dive that was way over her head. This has been pointed out many times here.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Sassy, case in point about far greater damge to reefs than reef hooks. I belive these are your words...

We are heading to Burma in Dec-Jan for the 9 day liveaboard trip on the Mermaid I. I hear that dynamite fishing & netting are big problems... Has anyone seen any of the horrible affects of this on Burma dive sites? Any special precautions we should take?

Ilikeair, you should talk to Sassy about this...

 

[victor]

With all due respect, I sympathize with your view.

But tell me this, if a group promotes itself as an authority on an activity, and engages in an exchange of their knowledge concerning said activity for something of value, and declares that the activity is:
safe Pronunciation Key (s

f)
adj. saf·er, saf·est

1. Secure from danger, harm, or evil.
2. Free from danger or injury; unhurt: safe and sound.
3. Free from risk; sure: a safe bet.
4. Affording protection: a safe place.
5. Baseball. Having reached a base without being put out, as a batter or base runner.

and someone is killed or injured as a result of something that is clearly foresable by such an authority, something that clearly demonstrates that the activity is not "safe," what then is the responsiblity (morally, ethically, financially, legally) of the "authority."

I am not sure if PADI or any other dive regulatory body describes diving as "safe", if they do then they would open them selves up to a legal challenge.
From memory the only think I was told was that by following the rules it would be safer.

Safe is an absolute, safer is a relative statement, sunbathing on a beach is safer if you wear suntan lotion, walking the streets in southern Lebanon is safer if you wear a flack jacket.

I think we agree that the level of risk that is acceptable is a personal thing and we should all take responsibility for our own decisions.

 

[Ilikeair]

Dennis,
Speaking of not reading posts.

Even if the little spot that you hook in at on Blue Corner is dead, that is just you. You keep talking and thinking about you. I am talking about dive sites being destroyed by teams of people hooking in day in and day out. It is not all dead. Just dying thanks to scuba divers. AND, there are many other sites very, very much alive where people hook in.

Do you really not know what I have in mind for saving the reefs in Palau?

1. No reef hooks (or any other behavior that guarantees frequent diver to coral contact).
2. No diving sites that cannot be visited without causing significant damage.

I would be upset about other environmental damage causes too. It just so happens that I recently saw first hand the damage being done in Palau from scuba divers. This website is the one I reviewed before going and I feel the information here on Palau was partial at best - so I thought I would offer my perspective (Sorry you don't like it).

Clearly you will continue to hook in. Maybe some others won't and the reef can ultimately survive through reduced impact. Your argument that other things are worse so let us just damage the reef a little so we can learn about the ocean is extraordinarily simple. Dennis, if you think about this you will realize the reefs should come first.

 

[SassyScubaGal]

Hi Dennis. Sassy here again. The issue I have is not with hooking into "dead coral"... It's giving people who have never used reef hooks before, a reef hook, and then sending them off into the current to fend for themselves sans thorough instruction. I have been on many live-aboards & have seen it with my own eyes. And mandatory reef hook diving only perpetuates the problem.

I don't think anyone meant to accuse you of intentionally killing coral & if my posts came off that way, please accept my apologies. Clearly, you love the ocean as we do. It's just that while you may be tenacious about hooking on to what is FOR SURE dead coral, other divers are not. As you know, it takes a lot of skill to spot & hook on to dead coral in a fierce current... Most of the time what I have seen is divers wisking over the reef & just hooking on wherever they can helter-skelter... A lot like to pretend the coral that they are hooking on to is "dead" (and I am not talking about you so please don't get offended) but as a participating member of Project AWARE, REEF Check, Ocean Conservancy, Oceana, and the Marine Mammal Society (not that this has anything to do with reefs), I can tell you firsthand, it is not. I have surveyed the damage & there is a reason reef hooks are banned in some parts of the world.

I agree with you that any damage is bad & actually grabbing the reef is worse... That's why I think our example should be consistent... No hooks, no grabbing, good buoyancy, streamlined, proper kicks, etc.

(Whew... And believe it or not, I am not even a "tree hugger"... Although Catherine's comment about Mexico cracked me up! )

 

[SassyScubaGal]

Sassy, case in point about far greater damge to reefs than reef hooks. I belive these are your words...



Ilikeair, you should talk to Sassy about this...

I am not fighting with you here Dennis... Agreed! There are many problems. Maybe on the reef hook issue, we just agree to disagree, how about that?