leisurepro warranty: scubapro

[divad]

And besides, people who try to make a living off of scuba diving are just people who are trying to get away with something.

 

[redacted]

And besides, people who try to make a living off of scuba diving are just people who are trying to get away with something.

Even I see that as a low blow. I really don't think it is the people as much as the business culture that has grown around scuba retail. Most of the people are like you and I - folks who really liked scuba. Then they thought they could make some money in it and got caught up in a business culture where price competition is not the primary factor. When price is not the primary factor, much of what you have left to work with is quality of service and shady dealings. Problem is not many of us can or choose to afford to award good service by paying 50 to 100% more. And the shady dealings probably have more payoff in the short run.

 

[gj62]

Even I see that as a low blow. I really don't think it is the people as much as the business culture that has grown around scuba retail. Most of the people are like you and I - folks who really liked scuba. Then they thought they could make some money in it and got caught up in a business culture where price competition is not the primary factor. When price is not the primary factor, much of what you have left to work with is quality of service and shady dealings. Problem is not many of us can or choose to afford to award good service by paying 50 to 100% more. And the shady dealings probably have more payoff in the short run.

Nail on the head...

 

[gj62]

Actually, that's not giving the folks I worked with enough credit. The shops are often at odds with the manufacturer (regarding minimum price, etc) in terms of the customer. So the supposition that the shops are the bad guy is false. The shops are in a bind.

If somebody said, "I won't sell SP because they are @#$", they are screwed. No name brand will sell to them...

Bottom line - the large manufacturers believe that it is the "new diver" that will buy the equip vs the knowledgable diver

Frankly, I think they are right. There are far many more people that get certified on Sunday and buy a rig on Monday than there are discerning divers who will drop $1K in their LDS...

Before I get alot of heated replies, know this - I don't have the answer. It is important for the sport that we have an infrastructure that tests for a modicum of skills to build awareness, rather than letting everyone go it on their own (we did that 25 years ago).

On the flip side, it ain't rocket science, DIR folks excpeted . I learned off the stern end of a sailboat and for shallow reef dives, if I got air I was OK. Frankly, I don't know how a true dive shop today survives that is not a travel agent. Message me if you know otherwise.

I dove long before I got a C-Card, with a horseshoe and little else. Something tells me the sport itself with attract enough interest to overwhelm the entry fee. We've made it easy - and that is the right thing for 90% of the divers. See a few reefs, get to 60', and tell stories around the fire. We have it lots better than some sports.

The downside is, buying into tennis is a $100 bill (unless you are in for fashion, which I know us divers aren't). We are alot more discerning (read: expensive). As a manufacturer, how do I capture that revenue? It's damn tough.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

SP dealers could give their customers a break if they wanted to. I don't think the customer is going to complain to SP that they saved money. The LDS can find some way to help save the customer money, but they don't seem to want to. A lot of shops seem to fall back on the SP pricing scheme as a way to justify their lack of competitive pricing. The whole issue of SP being able to dictate prices is insane.

You are pretty much right, some shops use it as an excuse when there are ways around it.

An SP dealer is pretty much stuck with the price structure outlined in the dealer agreement as even though the customers won't complain about saving money, the other dealers will complain if you drop below the 10% discount. The SP sales rep then gets very crabby with you.

But... bring in your old reg, maybe even a $20.00 POS reg you bought on E-bay, and an SP dealer can give you a great deal in terms of trade in value on the used reg and effectively discount the new SP reg very dramatically. (Or if you don't like E-bay just buy the $20.00 reg in the bucket in the corner of the shop that someone traded yesterday and immediately trade it back in on the new SP reg.) SP can control retail pricing but they can't do anything about a shop owner who does not seem to know what used regs are really worth.

Similarly, the SP dealer's hands may be tied on the SP items, but if the customer goes with a package deal, the dealer then has the opportunity to give you a heavy discount on the non SP items. A top end SP reg nominally sold to the customer at full retail is still potentially very competetive with on-line pricing when sold as a package. For example if the customer buys a non SP wetsuit with a $200 MSRP the dealer can make the deal pretty sweet for the customer. The dealer can send the wet suit out the door for $50 and use the profit on the reg at MSRP to offset the loss on the suit and give what amounts to a significant discount on the reg, maintain the terms of the SP dealer agreement, and still make a fair profit. Plus you get the benefits of the SP warranty and you get to try the wetsuit on before you buy it and you get to take everything home same day rather than waiting for the little brown truck to arrive sometime next week - all significant advantages over an LP purchase of the same items. And if you decide to buy a set of boots, some gloves and a hood from a brand name with no pricing structure, the deal can just keep getting better and better for both parties.

But some dealers just are not that creative. So, what you can do is find the owner of the shop, talk to them in private and lay it out for them in terms of what you want, what you can get it for on line and what they can do to sell it to you for similar money in order to get the sale AND get your loyal and long lived business as a repeat customer for additional equipment, air, training, dive travel, etc. In other words you give them the opportunity to make a little off you on this sale as well as on each of many future sales, or to choose to try to stick you with MSRP minus 10% and lose the sale, and all future sales, entirely.

A smart dealer will work with you if there is an upside in it for him although some of those dealers may also not want the details of the sale to get too public. They still want to make a lot of money off all their other customers who don't mind paying full retail.

As a very rough estimate, virtually everything in the shop has a 100% markup. That is not to say it has a 100% profit margin by any means as there are shipping costs and substantial overhead costs, but it will give you a rough estimate on what the dealer paid to purchase the item from the manufacturer when you are planning your "package" deal.

 

[ElectricZombie]

You are pretty much right, some shops use it as an excuse when there are ways around it.

You are absolutely correct in your post. The LDS could find ways to lower the price and still comply with SP's demands.

Say the diver wants to puchase a $200.00 reg and a $50.00 mask. The customer tells the LDS that they can get the reg online for about $160.00. Instead of responding "Can't help you, SP will take away my dealership!", they could say "How about I sell you the reg for $200.00 and sell you the mask for $20.00?". The customer ends ups buying the gear at the LDS for a price very close to the online price but gets a warranty. The customer will also be more likely to give the LDS repeat business because they were willing to work with them. LDS's need to get smart about their pricing if they want to stay around.

 

[Scubakevdm]

You are absolutely correct in your post. The LDS could find ways to lower the price and still comply with SP's demands.

Say the diver wants to puchase a $200.00 reg and a $50.00 mask. The customer tells the LDS that they can get the reg online for about $160.00. Instead of responding "Can't help you, SP will take away my dealership!", they could say "How about I sell you the reg for $200.00 and sell you the mask for $20.00?". The customer ends ups buying the gear at the LDS for a price very close to the online price but gets a warranty. The customer will also be more likely to give the LDS repeat business because they were willing to work with them. LDS's need to get smart about their pricing if they want to stay around.

Yes sir. That's how it works. Very nicely explained, and you bring up some good points.
1) Give us the opportunity to work with you by coming in and talking to us.
2) Give us some room to work with you like the mask in the example above.