Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[scubadada]

As I have said earlier, I was on the Nautilus Explorer last Spring. The main exit from the below deck cabins was onto the dive deck. The alternative exit was up a ladder, by my room, into the dining room (between the galley and the lounge to the dive deck). With the approval of the crew, I tried the emergency exit along with its hatch. Ahead of time, I had decided to use the main exit unless it was not possible. I was satisfied that I knew my two escape routes ahead of time. I had a smoke alarm in my room, I may take an independent smoke/CO alarm on future trips. I keep all of my important documents/possessions in a watertight bag by my bedside. I keep a dependable underwater light next to me also. I won't be on a Conception, but you never know.

 

[IDNeon357]

As I have said earlier, I was on the Nautilus Explorer last Spring. The main exit from the below deck cabins was onto the dive deck. The alternative exit was up a ladder, by my room, into the dining room (between the galley and the lounge to the dive deck). With the approval of the crew, I tried the emergency exit along with its hatch. Ahead of time, I had decided to use the main exit unless it was not possible. I was satisfied that I knew my two escape routes ahead of time. I had a smoke alarm in my room, I may take an independent smoke/CO alarm on future trips. I keep all of my important documents/possessions in a watertight bag by my bedside. I keep a dependable underwater light next to me also. I won't be on a Conception, but you never know.

That's good on you for trying the hatch exit. Impressive pro-activity

 

[KevinNM]

It's a boat, not a luxury liner. Limited space, limited options for solutions. For instance, where will the anchor chain be stowed? And in case of emergency should passengers be competent enough to crawl into a hatch in the anchor chain stowage and then out a hatch on top of that?

I wanted to weigh in on this as a former firefighter.

When I heard about this and that everyone below decks died, my first thoughts were thus:

1) The only exits must have been sufficiently blocked.

2) There must have been an accelerant.

Logic led to finding a boat-layout and proved #1. The bunk rooms were divided down the middle and had one stair that led to the galley, an easy blockage if the galley were where the fire began.

#2 has been harder to prove, as no one is saying anything.

But I'm sorry, the idea that an electrical fire of any kind, or a phone/battery charging would cause a fire to kill everyone, without an accelerant, is absurd. I just can't believe it.

The hatch-escape was probably not used.

Let's face it, and I'll admit, I'm one of those guys who never listened to the helicopter crash briefing, until I was actually in a helicopter crash.

No one listens to those things and even if they do, the chances of getting through special circumstances in an emergency are slim.

I call into question whatever that early report I head was...that it was a a charging station. Almost all your batteries have little more than a fraction of calories in them. If you work on high voltage switches you should know that a relatively safe caloric limit of 5 results in little PPE required and probably no harm should you have an Arc-flash event.

So a phone battery, or camera battery going off, is doubtfully going to turn into a raging inferno.

There must have been an accelerant.

Shorting wires are the same issue. When a wire shorts it is very likely to burn itself out and trip a breaker, so any fire it starts will be relatively confined long enough for SOMEONE to wake-up and get the hell out...

That leaves me thinking it's a galley fire with some kind of accelerant...

So if any one has any idea what the acclerant would be, I'm truly curious.

Polyurathane foam of the seat cusions. Incredibly energetic fire. Like flames high enough to reach the ceiling and hot enough to ignite everything flamable in that compartment.

 

[JohnnyC]

EVERYTHING on a boat is an accelerant. Resin/epoxy impregnated plywood, polyurethane foam like KevinNM mentioned, etc.

As for lithium battery fires, there's plenty of evidence in this thread showing just how energetic they can be. The NASA rover video is a good demonstration of how quickly and energetically they can go up, to the point that the firefighters who showed up to put it out, couldn't.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

I'm going to go with @KevinNM 's assertion that it could vary by state. A quick Google reveals at least one assertion that a doctor does not have a duty of care in that situation: "A doctor dining in a restaurant has no duty to come forward and assist a fellow customer who is suffering a heart attack." What Is a Doctor's Duty of Care? - FindLaw

I wonder about this. Does not doing anything when someone is suffering from a heart attack go against the hypocratic oath? Doctors take the oath to "do no harm" and I would suggest that staying silent and not offering assistance is in fact, doing harm.

 

[KevinNM]

I wonder about this. Does not doing anything when someone is suffering from a heart attack go against the hypocratic oath? Doctors take the oath to "do no harm" and I would suggest that staying silent and not offering assistance is in fact, doing harm.

Whether they even do an oath of any sort varies by medical school. And if they do, the contents of the oath vary wildly.

 

[Lorenzoid]

@ScubaWithTurk , maybe DMs should take a Poseidonic Oath.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

@ScubaWithTurk , maybe DMs should take a Poseidonic Oath.

I am with you on that and think you should create it!

 

[danddmiller1]

It's a boat, not a luxury liner. Limited space, limited options for solutions. For instance, where will the anchor chain be stowed? And in case of emergency should passengers be competent enough to crawl into a hatch in the anchor chain stowage and then out a hatch on top of that?

I wanted to weigh in on this as a former firefighter.

When I heard about this and that everyone below decks died, my first thoughts were thus:

1) The only exits must have been sufficiently blocked.

2) There must have been an accelerant.

Logic led to finding a boat-layout and proved #1. The bunk rooms were divided down the middle and had one stair that led to the galley, an easy blockage if the galley were where the fire began.

#2 has been harder to prove, as no one is saying anything.

But I'm sorry, the idea that an electrical fire of any kind, or a phone/battery charging would cause a fire to kill everyone, without an accelerant, is absurd. I just can't believe it.

The hatch-escape was probably not used.

Let's face it, and I'll admit, I'm one of those guys who never listened to the helicopter crash briefing, until I was actually in a helicopter crash.

No one listens to those things and even if they do, the chances of getting through special circumstances in an emergency are slim.

I call into question whatever that early report I head was...that it was a a charging station. Almost all your batteries have little more than a fraction of calories in them. If you work on high voltage switches you should know that a relatively safe caloric limit of 5 results in little PPE required and probably no harm should you have an Arc-flash event.

So a phone battery, or camera battery going off, is doubtfully going to turn into a raging inferno.

There must have been an accelerant.

Shorting wires are the same issue. When a wire shorts it is very likely to burn itself out and trip a breaker, so any fire it starts will be relatively confined long enough for SOMEONE to wake-up and get the hell out...

That leaves me thinking it's a galley fire with some kind of accelerant...

So if any one has any idea what the acclerant would be, I'm truly curious.

 

[danddmiller1]

The vessel carries gasoline for the skiff and I assume some extra on board