Left post rolloff.

[lamont]

Also, the divers who would be most likely to buy and adopt this are solo cave divers (since then the team-failure aspect is eliminated), but solo divers often choose to eliminate the isolator as a source of failure anyway and use independent side mount (and in the process increase task loading, arguably more than just monitoring for a roll-off).

 

[Bombay High]

look, this is really simple:

- a left post rolloff killed at least one experienced cave diver (someone with a better memory should be able to find this in iuccr).

- the proposed solution of using reverse threads has been thought of, e.g. post #2.

- why weren't they built this way originally? probably didn't seem like the biggest issue that needed solving at the time.

- why don't we all change? the fear is that confusion over which way the left valve turns will lead to more incidents than it prevents and it will do more harm than good.

you can debate that last point till you are blue in the face that the reverse threaded way is 'obviously better' and that everyone should change for the betterment of humankind, but you're going to get a lot of divers who don't sign on and there's almost certainly going to be some collateral damage along the way.

- its easy to fix, reach back and turn it back on. practice, practice, practice.

that is the DIR answer. period.

Got it.

"so, its been thought about, the arguments are actually blatantly obvious. the reasons for the decision and the work-around is also obvious -- and since the guy who heads the GUE training agency could very easily get his other company to start machining manifolds with reverse threads, i'm assuming this issue was actually considered at one point and rejected and not rejected entirely capriciously. i'm also positive that it wasn't made as some kind of vast conspiracy."

It was never my contention that this was a vast conspiracy. Not sure what I said that makes you imagine that I claimed a conspiracy.

For what its worth, I see great value in the GUE system. I dont understand the defensiveness that comes with questions asked.

 

[PfcAJ]

I think the defensiveness is more just the way frustration comes out on the internets. Wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[Bombay High]

I think the defensiveness is more just the way frustration comes out on the internets. Wouldn't worry about it too much.

Not at all worried .... but curious about what about my question would frustrate the moderator of this forum. Anyway ... got the answer to my original post .... or at least why the question should not be asked.

 

[ucfdiver]

...since the guy who heads the GUE training agency could very easily get his other company to start machining manifolds with reverse threads, i'm assuming this issue was actually considered at one point and rejected and not rejected entirely capriciously.

Issue is, rental tanks around the world wouldn't convert in 1, 5, or even 10 years down the road. Then you'd have students who are trained on gear that doesn't translate to the real world.

 

[TSandM]

Bombay, I don't think it was your post that Lamont felt talked about a conspiracy, or that he found frustrating. I think it was the post that was deleted.

 

[Adobo]

BH,

This question seems like it is trivia at this point. Regardless of what answers are given, there is no practical way to make a change now.

While I personally do not know the history behind JJ/DIR/Halcyon, I do know that Halcyon (and their manifold production) came after the WKPP. Meaning, when the WKPP folks started their efforts to standardize gear and procedures, they were doing so based on the set of commercially available scuba equipment. And if the vast majority of the manifolds you have access to are righty tighty on both posts, it only makes sense (to overhead divers anyway) to put the primary reg in the right post.

Halcyon started offering Halcyon branded manifolds some time later. Whether they made these or they had them built to Halcyon spec, I have no idea. Regardless, by that time, it was far too late to introduce a change that has, at best, a negligible value to a DIR diver who does frequent flow checks - something that is taught as early as GUE cave1/tech 1 or perhaps even in Fundamentals.

 

[Bombay High]

Bombay, I don't think it was your post that Lamont felt talked about a conspiracy, or that he found frustrating. I think it was the post that was deleted.

Thank you for clarifying. It was deleted before I read it, so I was a little bewildered.

My question was not posted by way of wanting to change the way the world dives. It was merely to gain some insight into the evolution, and whether or not the reverse thread option was ever looked into.

 

[cmalinowski]

... I dont understand the defensiveness that comes with questions asked.

.... but curious about what about my question would frustrate the moderator of this forum.

Since you asked: From sitting on the sidelines, I would say that the frustration comes when people answer the question and the answer doesn't seem good enough for an OP.

Everyone else was fine with the answer(s) but it appeared to me that you weren't. You kept poking: "Machining reverse threads is easy", "unlearning the current way is okay", then you insinuate that the people answering have "an incredible level of ignorance".

This, to me, is why DIR divers get pegged as being mean. A question is asked. It's answered. Then the OP keeps poking and poking until someone finally... after what I feel were some very patient responses... slips up and possibly cops an attitude. Then someone says "see, that's why DIR folks are a-holes. All I did was ask a question."

The constant questioning, even if very genuine, starts to feel like trolling. Like someone who has beef with DIR and decides that they are going to go ask a question and not be happy with the answer just to start a fight. Sometimes it is very difficult to tell the difference between a troll and just a very curious person. I think that most folks assume very curious up front, but then begin to get frustrated depending on how the very curious person responds to answers.

I am sure your questions were valid and not meant to poke or antagonize, but if I was answering, after a while I would have gotten frustrated. This is just one of the many reasons I don't post much anymore. Because I turned into one of those DIR a-holes. I don't have the capability for patience online like Lynne, Lamont, and others to politely answer 99% of the time. I'm not that bad in real life though... well, I don't think so anyway

I would guess that you weren't trolling, but you did ask why it would be frustrating. To me, that would be why.

Chris

 

[dbulmer]

Bombay,
What will make more sense to you I think is to think of your buddy's equipment as your own personal equipment. ( the buddy equally looks at your kit as his/hers)
If you look it that way you'll see that having standardised kit is a good idea - you will know how to operate your buddy's kit and your buddy will knoiw how to operate your kit - the same way, each time for each dive no matter what environment you dive in. The same goes for procedures - what is being avoided is the ability to turn a simple difference in to something more sinister.

DIR divers do everything they can to avoid the surprise factor by ensuring that everyone abides by the same rules.


I don't claim to be DIR but I hope that makes more sense to you?