DIR- Generic Learning Doubles (in Wetsuit?)

[broncobowsher]

If you’re hell bent on doing a course to learn doubles then go for it.

I think that is the point. Got to start doubles somewhere. Looks like they are trying to figure out the somewhere part of getting started.

 

[Celt]

I think that is the point. Got to start doubles somewhere. Looks like they are trying to figure out the somewhere part of getting started.

Put them on and go diving, and yes it is that simple if you can already dive a single.

 

[The Cosmicist]

Learning to dive again because you have added an extra tank and reg to your back
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DIR-diver.com - Adjust the backplate

Information about Doing It Right (DIR) diving, equipment and procedures.

dir-diver.com

Alumimnium tanks on your back
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DIR-diver.com - Reg configuration doubles

Information about Doing It Right (DIR) diving, equipment and procedures.

dir-diver.com

S drills,
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Are S-Drills BS?

The underlying goals behind the traditional S-Drill are vital. Unfortunately, this skill, as commonly taught, fails to meet them.

cavediving.com

Asking permission to dive with an extra tank on your back and paying someone to show you
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Priceless

While I don't really appreciate the condescending tone, I get your point! I'm not an idiot - far from it. I can teach myself. I am all about shortening the distance between points A and B, so if a course helps me become proficient more quickly, then what's the harm in that? I've read most of the links you sent already, but I'll read that S drill article when I have time today. Thanks for that!

Getting a tec pass in a wet suit is highly limiting, except if you plan to do all your dives in very (very!) warm water.


Don't you need to learn these things for any *BP/W + long-hose* configuration if you have never learned them before?
Also, the "100% wrong" thing is, frankly speaking, just bad. @Angelo Farina had just an opinion, saying that doubles are nothing special for him. It is personal, and, for example, it was the same for me - although doubles are different, I found it very easy to learn using them.


If you don't have a lot of experience with the drysuit and need it for your dives (namely, you want to do tech and/or cold water dives), I would start here.

Believe it or not, doubles are hard for some people, but they are easy for others (I found them so easy and actually more stable than single cylinders). Drysuit management, in my experience, has always been challenging for everyone (and always harder than doubles).

You make a good point. I really don't think doubles will be particularly hard for me, aside from the valve drill. It'll just take some practice and repetition, getting everything adjusted on my bp/w and the muscle memory.

I do think the drysuit will take longer to master. Working on that first would also enable me to use any doubles configuration I want. I'll think about that!

If you’re hell bent on doing a course to learn doubles then go for it.

I'm not hell bent on anything besides improving and getting to the type of diving I really want to do. If taking a course shortens the learning curve, then what's the harm?

 

[Lorenzoid]

I kinda wish I had first tried doubles in a wetsuit. But a mentor (who was then C2T2) advised me that if I wanted to master the full GUE configuration for a future tech route, I might as well bite the bullet and learn doubles and drysuit together. So I took a combined Doubles and Drysuit Primer (with Kyle Harmon). I found it difficult to learn both at the same time. Oh, eventually after a couple of years I got the hang of it, but it took, well, close to three years before my skills reached tech level. One thing I have discovered as I continue on the GUE path is that I learn best in small increments. In hindsight, I am curious whether I would have progressed faster had I taken the Doubles Primer in a wetsuit, spent maybe a dozen dives getting used to that, and THEN acquired the drysuit and continued from there. I definitely don't think it would be a good idea to get TOO cozy with the doubles-and-wetsuit configuration; best to move on as soon as possible.

 

[Celt]

I'm not hell bent on anything besides improving and getting to the type of diving I really want to do. If taking a course shortens the learning curve, then what's the harm?

It doesn’t shorten it. All you need to do is start using your twins instead of your single. How can you get shorter than that? It’s that simple.

 

[PfcAJ]

putting doubles on your back and going diving isn’t hard.

Really understanding the valves and failure modes takes a bit.

I recall a double fatality at Wayne’s World cave a number of years ago where one of the divers had his isolator closed and one tank was empty and the other still had gas in it. There was a lot of other stuff going on but not having solid double tank procedures and understanding made the situation even worse.

A class can help you. As can a good mentor.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It doesn’t shorten it. All you need to do is start using your twins instead of your single. How can you get shorter than that? It’s that simple.

A course may not shorten the learning curve, but a course could perhaps help him avoid picking up bad habits that later need to be unlearned. Also, the Doubles Primer course was full of tidbits that were nice to be spoon-fed in a single day rather than acquired gradually from other sources.

 

[Celt]

A course may not shorten the learning curve, but a course could perhaps help him avoid picking up bad habits that later need to be unlearned. Also, the Doubles Primer course was full of tidbits that were nice to be spoon-fed in a single day rather than acquired gradually from other sources.

What bad habits? I’ve heard that said before but don’t know what it means. And what would he learn that he couldn’t learn by using them.

 

[Lorenzoid]

What bad habits? I’ve heard that said before but don’t know what it means.

Since my frame of reference is limited to my own experiences, I can't really guess what other ways someone might do things. In other words, I'm not the best one to respond to this question. Maybe someone else can think of some. I suspect instructors have seen all kinds of things.

If one intends on continuing on the GUE path, one needs to learn the valve drill the way GUE teaches it, not some other (perhaps equally valid but just not GUE) way. Other than that, I could probably name a few things if I looked back through my training notebook, but just off the top of my head I recall I was developing a bad habit of looking downward rather than forward at my buddy when doing a valve drill, because it somehow felt easier to tilt my head down. Not only is it wiser to maintain eye contact with your buddy, but head tilting down can also mess with your trim. In the GUE world, you need to learn to do all the skills while maintaining trim within their threshold window, and the body position that feels good may not be conducive to maintaining trim. In my notebook from the course, I wrote "LOOK UP!" I recall we were also introduced to the concept of doing a "flow check"--where you check the positions of all three valves. You'd want to get used to doing that from time to time, and in the right-to-left order that GUE teaches. These are just a couple of things I remember dealing with. Sure, they're minor, and if you learn how to do it from videos you could just go out and practice it, and maybe it's unlikely you would later find you're not doing it quite right. But there's nothing like an instructor or mentor giving you immediate feedback.

Whether it's through a course or mentoring, I believe something more than just playing around with the doubles and figuring them out on one's own would be prudent if one has specific goals, like conforming to GUE's way of doing things. Since the OP posted in the DIR forum and has taken GUE courses, I'm assuming he's planning to continue on that path.

 

[Celt]

Since my frame of reference is limited to my own experiences, I can't really guess what other ways someone might do things. In other words, I'm not the best one to respond to this question. Maybe someone else can think of some. I suspect instructors have seen all kinds of things.

If one intends on continuing on the GUE path, one needs to learn the valve drill the way GUE teaches it, not some other (perhaps equally valid but just not GUE) way. Other than that, I could probably name a few things if I looked back through my training notebook, but just off the top of my head I recall I was developing a bad habit of looking downward rather than forward at my buddy when doing a valve drill, because it somehow felt easier to tilt my head down. Not only is it wiser to maintain eye contact with your buddy, but head tilting down can also mess with your trim. In the GUE world, you need to learn to do all the skills while maintaining trim within their threshold window, and the body position that feels good may not be conducive to maintaining trim. In my notebook from the course, I wrote "LOOK UP!" I recall there was also the concept of doing a "flow check"--where you check the positions of all three valves. You'd want to get used to doing that from time to time, and in the right-to-left order that GUE teaches. These are just a couple of things I remember dealing with. Sure, they're minor, and if you learn how to do it from videos you could just go out and practice it, and maybe it's unlikely you would later find you're not doing it quite right. But there's nothing like an instructor or mentor giving you immediate feedback.

Whether it's through a course or mentoring, I believe something more than just playing around with the doubles and figuring them out on one's own would be prudent if one has specific goals, like conforming to GUE's way of doing things. Since the OP posted in the DIR forum and has taken GUE courses, I'm assuming he's planning to continue on that path.

The OP said he got a fundies rec pass using a LP72 single, if he got a pair of LP72,s he would find them just as easy if not better.