Learn Doubles or Sidemount first?

[jtsfour]

View attachment 477655

I brought up that a reg failure (something that DOES happen) reduces your gas supply by half when diving independent doubles. This does not happen with manifolded doubles. That possibility is a pretty big drawback to independents.

can't you just take the regulator off and breathe straight from the tank in extreme cases?

i don't mean put the tank valve in your mouth just breathe the bubbles like a freeflowing reg and feather it?

you could also try swapping regs underwater if you had to

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Zero indicators of an issue that before it happened.

Sometimes things break.

Sure, sometimes there are hoses that are defective from the factory. But I have no o ask, how many dives/how much time was on that hose?

You could if push comes to shove breath off that ruptured low pressure hose.

 

[PfcAJ]

can't you just take the regulator off and breathe straight from the tank in extreme cases?

i don't mean put the tank valve in your mouth just breathe the bubbles like a freeflowing reg and feather it?

you could also try swapping regs underwater if you had to

I suppose you *could* breath of the valve directly, depending on the valve and how smooth it is. Other confounding issues include getting the tank to your face (unclipping it) and keeping it there, also making forward progress to your next gas supply. Add in a little spice like low vis and being on the line and you're in a real pickle.

Swapping regs on a breathhold is lol quality. Sometimes I can't get a fickin' DIN to thread when im in my garage. Underwater with the clock ticking? Nah bro.

 

[jtsfour]

Swapping regs on a breathhold is lol quality. Sometimes I can't get a fickin' DIN to thread when im in my garage. Underwater with the clock ticking? Nah bro.

I mean that girl did it in 47 meters down...

 

[JohnnyC]

I've hot lipped a valve before for ghits and shiggles. It sucks. It's annoying, certainly not easy to do well, and that's in a calm pool in board shorts with a margarita waiting for me when I get out. In a cave, blind, on a line, through a restriction, sure, you're going to do whatever you have to do to try and survive, but you could hot lip a valve to within 5 feet of another gas bottle and still croak.

Manifold failures barely happen. They introduce one potential failure mechanism, but give you many more options to deal with potential issues. Independent sidemount cylinders remove that one option, but pretty much torch any chance you have to deal with another slew of failures. You just don't have the same options on sidemount. There's manifolded sidemount, but that abortion is worse that either. I dive sidemount when necessary, but I'm under no false assumptions about its safety over having ALL my gas available.

 

[MichaelMc]

OP plans to learn both.... So which is better is not the issue.

Issue is which to learn first. The simpler aspects of learning seem more relevant for that.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I am about to venture into tech diving. I plan on learning both SM and doubles. Will learning SM make it easier to learn doubles in the future? Will learning SM teach me valuable buoyancy skills early on? What are your opinions?

Buoyancy, trim, and propulsion are easiest learned in a wetsuit with a single tank, then further refined in doubles, then mastered with a drysuit, It's like learning to surf. Surfers start with a big, long, thick, forgiving board and eventually work their way to some fast moving fish or big wave short board. The less stuff on you, the easier it is to figure out balance, trim, buoyancy, and some kicks like the backward kick. Most divers show up for such training in doubles or in SM, but in my experience helping with GUE-F courses and teaching ABC and intro to tech is that the students in single or double AL80's tend to "get it" faster and with a greater understanding of nuance vs. those in steel doubles. It's not absolute. Some students do well in steels. Those who tend to struggle often do better when we lighten them up.

I've been seeing a lot of horrendous sidemount divers lately. I don't think OW SM programssuch as PADI sidemount are helping any. I personally know several OW instructors who teach that program who have no skills or understanding. I don't dive SM. I tried it once during a Dive Rite demo. But, I have heard cave instructor friends of mine teaching SM and the awful OW instructors producing the poor students are telling them nothing like what my friends who are sidemount experts in cave diving are teaching. The same applies to instructors teaching tech in doubles. Lots of bad ones out there.

It's really the instructor more than the configuration. If you went to a high-end instructor in any discipline, you'll learn the skills that will point you in the direction you will need to put coaching into practice and become dialed-in. If you go to a poor instructor you might have a long struggle ahead just to end up doing it wrong.

Ah yes, the fabled manifold failure that literally never happens. Reg issues otoh are common.

Would you believe that we got to see that failure in Tech 1? Taz Brannon's manifold failed while his tanks were sitting on a picnic table. AG and MHK were amazed. Apparently, witnessing the tanks draining with no recourse should have been worth the cost of admission alone. Like you said, 'Things break." Never seen that happen again in the 17 years since.

 

[EireDiver606]

If you do it properly (like you certainly do), then you need to perform a complex valve close/open procedure behind your head correctly and quickly under stress in order to survive

Who said it’s complex?

 

[Lorenzoid]

OP plans to learn both.... So which is better is not the issue.

Issue is which to learn first.

That's how I understood the question. If that is indeed the question, then I would say learn backmount first because it is most similar to what OW divers are accustomed to. In other words, the easier learning curve. Get proficient with backmount, and then tackle sidemount.

 

[fish149]

I went back mount first. Even though I love my sidemount rig I'd still go backmount if I had to learn all over again, just my 2 cents...