LDS (dive instructors)

[jpmorrison]

Having become a member of this board and reading many posts My eyes have been greatly opened. (mostly good) I just read a post from a senior Instructor that was thinking of washing his hands of diving (a sad thing) Which leads me to my question. I to wen't through a cattle boat dive certification in Phoenix, Az. I started diving back in 1967 In Uncle Pugs country but got a way from diving for many years. Last year decided to go back and get certified I thought the right way. I won't go into details, but it was a very bad ordeal. I decided to just get through it and go on which I did. One of My daughters wanted to get certified so I took her back to the same dive shop (how we forget when time goes buy) nothing had changed another bad experceince,She wanted to quit but managed to get through it. I would like to warn new divers of this person and her dive shop before she screws up any more new people I also would like to contact SSI about this problem. How do the diving gods feel about this?
Thanks

 

[Dee]

Not an Instructor, just a lowly Divemaster but...

PADI, and I'm sure the other agnecies as well, sends out random student evaluation forms after a class. Any time you feel you did not get the proper instruction, have any questions about the instruction, or witness any inproprieties, report it to the certifying agency. They can't correct a problem if they know nothing about it. The agency will investigate and take the appropriate measures.

 

[Walter]

Random checks aren't always enough. Anyone who feels their class was inadequate should contact the certifying agency and explain the problems in detail. The agency should conduct an investigation into the allegations.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Like the others said contact the agency. I don't belive the student evaluation forms are a reliable form of quality control. They are designed to catch blatant standards violations not poor quality instruction or someone who seems to meet standards but not the intent of the standards.

I have tried to put a bug in the ear of one agency (I'll leave out the name). I have tried to inform them of some of the things that are going on. They either believe that evaluation forms are working or they have their head in the sand. If students are more educated about what they should get or at least about what they want and voice their complaints and wishes I think someone will listed. From a business prospective all any business wants to do is satisfy their customers so if divers are easy to please or if fast cheap classes are what they want then that is what agencies, shops and instructors will give them.

If the diving public is really happy with the way things are than myself and some others are just off in left field by ourselves.

 

[Dee]

The random evaluation forms aren't enough. In fact, students may have no idea they got sub-standard training...they have nothing to compare it to. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it! :mean:

 

[chrispete]

I'd agree with Dee that many new divers probably don't know whether they got good instruction or not - they simply do not have anything to compare their training to. I know that I lucked out and got a good instructor from the start (and for the LDS's out there, that's why I've stuck with him for my other certifications), but the one thing that has helped more than anything was the ability to measure my skills by diving with knowledgable divers (Southern TX Swampers) and learning from them.

Maybe people shouldn't try and look down on the rototillers or preach to them, but try to get them around knowledgable divers by simply asking them during their SI if they'd like to join your group on a dive, then letting them ask the questions afterwards.

 

[Dee]

For all the preaching everyone does about how bad the new students are or how sorry their training is, the training agencies aren't going to change...at least not in the near future.

Those same students could use the help of experienced divers with good skills. Instead of complaining, why not invite them to dive with you. Offer them the fruits of your experience, help them to understand WHY it's important for them to continue to improve their skills. Yes, it's aggrivating to dive in the same area where other divers have churned up the bottom, and it's not always the new divers doing it. But if we don't all take an active part in correcting the problem, none of us have the right to complain.

For instance, Mr. Ferrara keeps mentioning the divers sitting in the nesting beds of local fish. Why not explain the breeding habits and behavior of those fish as well as the impact that destroying those nests have. Our local lakes and quarries may not be seen as having an environmental impact on the rest of the world (paraphrasing from another thread), but each of those lakes is an environment all their own and each one precious. And as our local areas, we depend on them for the majority of our diving. Helping all divers, new or not, improve their skills can only improve things all around for everyone.

Yes, there are some divers who don't want to hear they could use some improvement and for those I feel sorry. That doesn't mean we can't concentrate on the others who ARE open to suggestion. None of us are perfect divers. So let's stop casting stones and do something to help the problem, not add to it.

 

[CheeseWhiz]

I tend to disagree that a beginning diver wouldn't know if the instruction he is receiving is good or not. If you ain't learning, then the teacher ain't teaching.

Granted, the new student doesn't know what he doesn't know, but I believe most people can get a sense of whether or not they are learning anything, and whether or not their questions are being answered in a satisfactory manner.

As a student (at any level), it's up to you to let the instructor know if he's going too fast, too slow, not explaining concepts well enough, etc etc.

Oooops....that wound up being 3¢!!

 

[Jarhead]

CheeseWhiz once bubbled...
If you ain't learning, then the teacher ain't teaching....

But how does a student know if the teacher is teaching 100% of the material or 50%?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dee once bubbled...


For instance, Mr. Ferrara keeps mentioning the divers sitting in the nesting beds of local fish. Why not explain the breeding habits and behavior of those fish as well as the impact that destroying those nests have. Our local lakes and quarries may not be seen as having an environmental impact on the rest of the world (paraphrasing from another thread), but each of those lakes is an environment all their own and each one precious. And as our local areas, we depend on them for the majority of our diving. Helping all divers, new or not, improve their skills can only improve things all around for everyone.

Actually, for that pair I wrote a note on my slate to let them know what they were doing. Unfortunatly, some of the divers I see underwater I don't see on land. At least, if I do I don't know who they are. Some of these sites can get pretty cowded. But then there is this board. Some of those divers are bound to be here. I have extended many invitations to new divers to dive with our group. I have even invited other instructors to sit in on our classes. Instructors don't seem to share information and techniques very much. That's too bad, I think it would be a good thing.