LDS Bashers

[Al Mialkovsky]

Wayward I understand what you're saying. I just simply took a shot at someone who took a shot at a guy who liked his LDS. There was no reason for ghostdiver to take a shot at him but he did, only because he likes his LDS.

As an instructor I see the majority of my students ending up with systems. The majority of those buy from a LDS. The majority of those who buy online get screwed somewhere along the line.

 

[novicediver]

Which is still too many.... we always complain and whine about newbie this and newbie that and reef crashing, etc ad nauseum. If there were fewer divers, we would not have these "problems".

 

[mdb]

Which is still too many.... we always complain and whine about newbie this and newbie that and reef crashing, etc ad nauseum. If there were fewer divers, we would not have these "problems".

Seems like with 200 dives you are pretty much a "newbie" yourself.

 

[mdb]

If we have more properly trained divers we would all be better off.

 

[novicediver]

well since I don't live in CA, or near water, it is hard to dive more and 200 dives is hardly a "newbie"; personally I don't care how new a diver is, I just prefer diving to be less commercial thats all

 

[scubafool]

There are fewer divers. In the US, with a population that is almost 300 million, we still have a new diver base of 250-270 thousand per annum; less than 1/10th of 1% of the general population.

It seems to me that for that 250,000+ number to have any meaning in the sense that you use it, it would have to be indexed against the population increase. Of course, that doesn't take into account the number of people who get certified but don't continue to dive. Kinda hard to draw a conclusion without more info.

 

[Stu S.]

Back when I started diving, one could go into a discount department store and buy a regulator, mask, weight belt, etc., in the Sporting Goods department. The local dive stores made a living by training, selection, trips, and selling to customers who did not shop for price. The two methods of retail existed peacefully in the same community. Today the big web retailers have replaced discount store chains. The little guys still co-exist with big retailers. There are also a lot more divers, so the system appears to be working. If the sport keeps growing, there should be plenty of business for everyone.

 

[ghostdiver1957]

Wayward I understand what you're saying. I just simply took a shot at someone who took a shot at a guy who liked his LDS. There was no reason for ghostdiver to take a shot at him but he did, only because he likes his LDS.

As an instructor I see the majority of my students ending up with systems. The majority of those buy from a LDS. The majority of those who buy online get screwed somewhere along the line.

Al,

I didn't take a direct shot at the guy... I'm shooting at all the poor souls who get sheisted by their LDS's. I'm hoping that my harsh worded comments may grab their attention and make them start investigating their LDS. In most cases people will find they're being handed a load of BS at the LDS. Overcharged, lied to about which gear is better etc... You're not going to tell someone an Apeks reg is best for them (their needs - assuming it is) if all you sell is IST. In some of those shops... some poor soul today will pay more for an IST Regulator than they could have had an Apeks or Scubapro or Poseidon for at a good shop or on-line.

If he/she investigates and finds that their LDS is a damn fine shop... then great... I'm all for that. I just know the percentages. In my area 1 out of 8 shops is reputable. I doubt the industry as a whole is much different. I hate seeing people get ripped off becuase they put trust is scheisters. In some places that is OK... but not in SCUBA. Not when you're taking for granted training and equipment that you need to save your life. I say... question, question, then question some more... and I'm not talking about the guy working in the LDS... I'm talking about hitting your local dive sites and talking to other people that are in the game... Do your homework before spending a dime in an LDS...

 

[bruehlt]

No, you are actually obviously not schooled in economics.

As industries mature they tend to split into low-margin, high-volume business and high-margin, low-volume niches. This is exactly what we are seeing occur with diving equipment. Dive shops that have been following the model of making their air fills and training loss-leaders and selling high-margin equipment are going out of business to low margin internet resellers of gear. Getting on scubaboard isn't going to change the economic realities of this. As dive shops go under, there should be more pricing power available to the remaining dive shops so that they can adjust their training and fills to more reasonable prices and adjust their gear prices lower to compete with the internet shops. Any other model simply isn't going to survive. And economics doesn't care about the damage that is done to the diving industry and scuba diving in the process -- that is why economics is called the 'dismal science' -- and this is really a pretty cheery outcome compared to how dismal economics can get...

If you actually understood economics, you'd understand that your entire post was just pissing into the wind...

This has been one of THE most useful posts on here in a while - I agree 100%.

People need to realize that its not personal - buisness is buisness. If it means that dive shops go out of buisness, whose at fault? Is it the customers? No - its the buisness. The laws of economics are not driven by opinions.

 

[diptera]

Having lurked around the site for the past few months, I continue to be amazed at the absolute ignorance in economic principles of the LDS bashers on this site.

Let me see if I have this correct - a store owner who has retail rent, retail commercial insurance, employee wages, taxes and benefits, retail inventory carrying costs.....

Am I an LDS owner, no. Just someone schooled enough in economics to understand the principles behind retail economics, and smart enough to realize that WITHOUT THE LDS, DIVING IS A DYING SPORT (I'm sure that so many of our newbies were inspired to begin diving by surfing the internet, seeing a dive site, and taking their online OW certification course).

There is a vast difference between being a smart buyer, and being cheap.

1. Being knowledgeable in the particulars of retail BUSINESS is not the same as understanding economics. Economics includes CONSUMER BEHAVIOR, and things like elasticity of demand.

2. I know a lot of people who were drawn to diving by the internet.

3. If the LDS owner can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

We heard the same whining from Detroit when Toyota started showing them how it's done. It's capitalism, Baby! Consumers can choose how much service they need and are willing to pay for. Either make the consumer want what you offer, or get out of the way for someone who can.