LDS Bashers

[1fastcat]

Having lurked around the site for the past few months, I continue to be amazed at the absolute ignorance in economic principles of the LDS bashers on this site.

Let me see if I have this correct - a store owner who has retail rent, retail commercial insurance, employee wages, taxes and benefits, retail inventory carrying costs should sell his products for the lowest price available on the internet.

And you, Mr. internet only shopper, should be able to waste his employees' time and use his store to see-touch-feel the products before you order on-line. In essence he is the free showroom for the internet providers.

Now, you economic geniuses, help me with the math - if I have retail overhead, and sell at a margin that is too low to substain my overhead expenses, I guess I'll just lose money to stay open for your window shopping convenience.

Don't blame your LDS for trying -heaven forbid- "TO MAKE ENOUGH OF A PROFIT TO MAKE A DECENT LIVING". I guess it is ok for you to make a good wage/salary that allows you extra money to buy diving equipment and support your diving expenses, but it is not ok for the LDS owner or employees to be able to pay rent/food/utilities and maybe have a little bit extra to spend?

Those of you who indicate that you got "ripped off" by your LDS - Did you bother to ask if they offer a discount for buying a substantial amount of items, or an expensive item? If you didn't, then shame on you.

I know that there are some "slam em" LDS shops out there, but the vast majority that I have shopped at are owned by diving enthusiasts, who quite frankly, are sacrificing their optimum earning potential by continuing to operate a retail storefront.

Those of you on this site constantly preaching to newbies and others to abandon the LDS in favor of your "great internet buying experience" are doing a disservice to all divers. Oh, and I'm sure, because of your total disdain for the LDS, that you send your tank via UPS to your "amazing internet dive speciallist" for filling. Oh, what's that you say Mr. Genius - you fill your tanks at the LDS, geeze thanks for paying the bills.

When the LDS's are out of business, I'll make sure to come over to your house and use your $20,000 compressor. Oh, and make sure that you have a nitrox system as well. And don't expect me to pay for the maintenance, repair and eventual replacement cost. Oh, and please make sure you are a certified diving instructor and are willing to OW certify all the new divers in your area at a break even cost or even a small loss (by the way I want to see your $2,000,000 liability policy before you train me).

Next time you read about more companies closing down plants/offices to open in Mexico, India, Pakistan etc. realize that you - even in you infantile "I have to pay the cheapest amount for everything" mentality, are fueling offshoring.

And perhaps, your employer will come to you and tell you that you can either cut your wages/salary by 40% or lose your job, because "everyone has become so cheap that we can no longer make a profit".

Am I an LDS owner, no. Just someone schooled enough in economics to understand the principles behind retail economics, and smart enough to realize that WITHOUT THE LDS, DIVING IS A DYING SPORT (I'm sure that so many of our newbies were inspired to begin diving by surfing the internet, seeing a dive site, and taking their online OW certification course).

There is a vast difference between being a smart buyer, and being cheap.

 

[mnj1233]

Pandoras box is open!!!!! Good luck fastcat you touched on a sore subject LOL. You know the old saying, "Only way to get a million dollars in the LDS business is to start with 2 million."

 

[Rick Murchison]

Let me see if I have this correct - a store owner who has retail rent, retail commercial insurance, employee wages, taxes and benefits, retail inventory carrying costs should sell his products for the lowest price available on the internet.

And you, Mr. internet only shopper, should be able to waste his employees' time and use his store to see-touch-feel the products before you order on-line. In essence he is the free showroom for the internet providers.

Now, you economic geniuses, help me with the math - if I have retail overhead, and sell at a margin that is too low to substain my overhead expenses, I guess I'll just lose money to stay open for your window shopping convenience.

I do believe you have the essence of it! (But you do need to add tax)
Rick

 

[ShakaZulu]

It's inevitable, the business model has changed. Either add an internet outlet to your LDS or take the beating. My LDS does not match internet prices, so they don't get my business. If I'm buying an item that I have to fit, like a wetsuit, I buy it from the LDS.

Nice first post, welcome to the board.

PS. Larry from ScubaToys.com seems to understand this, why rest of the LDS owners are so backwards is beyond me……….

 

[mnj1233]

It's inevitable, the business model has changed. Either add an internet outlet to your LDS or take the beating. My LDS does not match internet prices, so they don't get my business. If I'm buying an item that I have to fit, like a wetsuit, I buy it from the LDS.

Nice first post, welcome to the board.

PS. Larry from ScubaToys.com seems to understand this, why rest of the LDS owners are so backwards is beyond me……….

With all due respect not all LDS's are ALLOWED to sell their product on-line per their dealer agreement. Handcuffed it seems. I see both sides. P.S. Just edited grammatical errors

 

[akscubainst]

PS. Larry from ScubaToys.com seems to understand this, why rest of the LDS owners are so backwards is beyond me……….

Or Maybe we live in places like Juneau, Alaska where it's not reasonable.

 

[Lisa0825]

I have very little experience shopping for dive equipment as I am still new, but basically a fundamental change in the way people do business has occurred, thanks to the internet. Many kinds of retail establishments are going through changes in their business practices because of this. Look at the travel industry! It wasn't so long ago that people couldn't make all of their travel arrangements on their own with a few clicks. Travel agents have been hit hard.

Similarly, look how the Walmartization of America has hit the small shop owner. Things change. You can't un-drop the bomb.

I don't have an answer, and I barely have any opinions yet. But it's an interesting dilemma to think about.

 

[oly5050user]

lets see now--if lds closes no ready access to air fills ,you may have to spend more$ or time to drive to next closest lds for air(not very convient)/some of you say "I have my own compressor"-no training because lds closes, some of you say "I don't need it"-local dive boats have no customers to go out because the lds does not exist to provide trained divers -some will say "I have my own boat"--If this is the trend then diving is a dying activity for there will be a very difficult way to access it for the majority of people..Now you have less people in the activity so equipment prices will have to increase at the manufactuers level to make up for loss of sales..See where this is going?? Support your local LDS they are/can be your friend...What are you going to save online?? In the short term ,yeah you MAY save a bit but now where you going to maintain/get air/boat trip?? Remember there is no manufactuers warranty so if something happens(a recall? you would not be notified)an accident? Who you going to complain to? For the people who only dive on vacation in the islands they will not notice the inconvience but will on $ of equipment..For the people who dive locally , they may have to take up tennis!

 

[redacted]

Having lurked around the site for the past few months, I continue to be amazed at the absolute ignorance in economic principles of the LDS bashers on this site.

Let me see if I have this correct - a store owner who has retail rent, retail commercial insurance, employee wages, taxes and benefits, retail inventory carrying costs should sell his products for the lowest price available on the internet.

And you, Mr. internet only shopper, should be able to waste his employees' time and use his store to see-touch-feel the products before you order on-line. In essence he is the free showroom for the internet providers.

Now, you economic geniuses, help me with the math - if I have retail overhead, and sell at a margin that is too low to substain my overhead expenses, I guess I'll just lose money to stay open for your window shopping convenience.

Don't blame your LDS for trying -heaven forbid- "TO MAKE ENOUGH OF A PROFIT TO MAKE A DECENT LIVING". I guess it is ok for you to make a good wage/salary that allows you extra money to buy diving equipment and support your diving expenses, but it is not ok for the LDS owner or employees to be able to pay rent/food/utilities and maybe have a little bit extra to spend?

Those of you who indicate that you got "ripped off" by your LDS - Did you bother to ask if they offer a discount for buying a substantial amount of items, or an expensive item? If you didn't, then shame on you.

I know that there are some "slam em" LDS shops out there, but the vast majority that I have shopped at are owned by diving enthusiasts, who quite frankly, are sacrificing their optimum earning potential by continuing to operate a retail storefront.

Those of you on this site constantly preaching to newbies and others to abandon the LDS in favor of your "great internet buying experience" are doing a disservice to all divers. Oh, and I'm sure, because of your total disdain for the LDS, that you send your tank via UPS to your "amazing internet dive speciallist" for filling. Oh, what's that you say Mr. Genius - you fill your tanks at the LDS, geeze thanks for paying the bills.

When the LDS's are out of business, I'll make sure to come over to your house and use your $20,000 compressor. Oh, and make sure that you have a nitrox system as well. And don't expect me to pay for the maintenance, repair and eventual replacement cost. Oh, and please make sure you are a certified diving instructor and are willing to OW certify all the new divers in your area at a break even cost or even a small loss (by the way I want to see your $2,000,000 liability policy before you train me).

Next time you read about more companies closing down plants/offices to open in Mexico, India, Pakistan etc. realize that you - even in you infantile "I have to pay the cheapest amount for everything" mentality, are fueling offshoring.

And perhaps, your employer will come to you and tell you that you can either cut your wages/salary by 40% or lose your job, because "everyone has become so cheap that we can no longer make a profit".

Am I an LDS owner, no. Just someone schooled enough in economics to understand the principles behind retail economics, and smart enough to realize that WITHOUT THE LDS, DIVING IS A DYING SPORT (I'm sure that so many of our newbies were inspired to begin diving by surfing the internet, seeing a dive site, and taking their online OW certification course).

There is a vast difference between being a smart buyer, and being cheap.

How much of the dive gear that you sell in your shop has a label that says "Made in Mexico"?

What are you driving, where did you buy it, and how much did you shop around before you found a mutually satisfactory deal?

Why don't you fill out your profile?

 

[mnj1233]

How much of the dive gear that you sell in your shop has a label that says "Made in Mexico"?

What are you driving, where did you buy it, and how much did you shop around before you found a mutually satisfactory deal?

Why don't you fill out your profile?

He did say he is not a shop owner.