LDS Bashers

[bradshsi]

As industries mature they tend to split into low-margin, high-volume business and high-margin, low-volume niches. This is exactly what we are seeing occur with diving equipment. Dive shops that have been following the model of making their air fills and training loss-leaders and selling high-margin equipment are going out of business to low margin internet resellers of gear. Getting on scubaboard isn't going to change the economic realities of this. As dive shops go under, there should be more pricing power available to the remaining dive shops so that they can adjust their training and fills to more reasonable prices and adjust their gear prices lower to compete with the internet shops.

Lamont summed up the reality rather well. (You didn't by chance train as an economist in a former life ?)

You are going to see the online high volume LDS model and the local high service model evolve. This is just the same model that travel agents are heading down, except with a 5+ year head start. Most LDS wil likely go for the high service model or close down as most will not have the inclination or expertise to setup a workable online retail presence.

I'll leave you with a quote from an Economist www.economist.com article on travel agents from some time back. It is a foretaste of what the LDS must endure.

TRAVEL agents are having a hard time. Traditionally they have made their money by taking a cut of what airlines, hotels and car-hire firms charge for their products. But that source of revenue is drying up fast. American airlines have already cut back the commission they pay to travel agents twice in the past two years, from 10% to 8%. The most recent cut, in November 1997, elicited squeals from agents, who claimed they were being driven to the wall. The number of travel agents in America is already on a distinct downward trend. Quite right too, says Addison Schonland of CIC, a consultancy in San Diego: if they want to call themselves a profession, travel agents should start acting like one by providing clients with expert service and charging fees for it.

Too many agents today, by collecting a toll on transactions that may soon be conducted electronically, leave themselves vulnerable to the fate of high-street bank tellers whose jobs have been taken over by cash machines and telephonists. The on-line competition is up and running.


Source: Economist Jan 8th 1998

 

[JeffG]

There will always be operators in the "exotics" because that's where most of the world's diving happens. If you take this as an example, you'll understand why I am not trying to sell snow boards here in Belize.

LOL


also, why would the dive center in the "exotics" give a flying %$& about the state of LDS's somewhere else.

 

[abitton]

I've said it before -- we have an excellent LDS. And it isn't just my perception -- they were honored by DEMA this year as one of the top 15 dive shops in the country. It's a friendly place and customer service is superb. Yes, they sell things. It's how they survive. And no, they can't or won't always match the prices available elsewhere. But my husband and I have made a decision that, if the LDS can come within 10 to 20 percent of the price elsewhere, we will buy at the LDS. Why? Because we want to support the business, which provides superb equipment servicing, stands behind the things it sells to sometimes an almost absurd degree, and has created an community of good people who share a love of diving.

Sometimes money is the critical aspect of a purchase. But it is always good to look at the other factors.

EXCELLENT POINT! This is what this debate is about: how to create value for the customer. If the LDS can package extra value with the item sold, it can then sell it for a premium price. The onus is on the LDS to figure out what the customer values (service, support, whatever), and cannot get from the internet shops. This is a very basic marketing concept. However, most (big assumption here) LDS owners are not what you would call "professional" business people, and are simply passionate about diving. They thus lack the necessary knowledge to truly come up with a dynamic business model, the key word being dynamic.

The attitude that seems to prevail reminds me of the recording industry's reaction to digital music downloading. They spent more resources on whining than on adapting and shaping the industry, and are still in trouble.

I don't "support" my LDS. I make purchases there that are often more expensive than in online stores, because I receive outstanding service. I know that if I have any questions or problems, they will do all in their power to help. Why should we subsidize incompetence?

My 2 PSI.

EDIT: Lamont's point parallels what I'm saying. That's also an excellent analysis of the situation.

Alex

 

[JeffG]

I don't "support" my LDS. I make purchases there that are often more expensive than in online stores, because I receive outstanding service. I know that if I have any questions or problems, they will do all in their power to help.

and I avoid my local LDS's because they have nothing to offer except high prices. There is one LDS that I support (and I go 180 miles out of my way to do so), but they cannot service all my needs. Thats where the internet comes in.

 

[Sasquatch]

A good LDS is a valuable, nearly required resource for us. A good diver is smart enough to shop around to get the best deal he can. Smart enough to split the difference with the good LDS if that option is available. Smart enough to take many factors into consideration and make the logical choice.

Pretty simple, really.

 

[cyklon_300]

If it wasnt for LDS / Dive Centers & resorts which all relay on equpiment sales there would be NO sports diving ! Thats the bottom line NOT the bottom price .

And another thing I know what I,ve written in this thread , so no need to copy & paste it if youd like to address what I,ve said !!!!!!!

Shame on you LDS bashers , you give the rest of us a bad Name !

believe what you posted, you're delusional or just seriously uninformed. I haven't purchased anything from a dive shop in years and some how manage to make a 100 dives a year.

The only thing giving you a bad name is your weak presentation of your flawed argument. Keep trying.

 

[countryboy]

This is funny...

I purchased my last vehicle on line (Dodge Dakota 4X4).. get the best price (multiple quotes from local dealers).. Went in the dealer, test drove the vehicle, and was done in 30 mins.. Signed sealed.. and delivered 3 days later.

Even the auto industry has noticed the value of on-line sales... they even dedicate 1 salesperson for this function.

The difference.. They give you the best price right out of the gate, 'cause they know you are shopping and will not even set foot in the door if they are not competitive.

There was no negativity, great experience, and the dealer's whole staff was awesome. I was given a coupon book for the 1st year service for free.. So I drove (out of my way) to go back to them for the regular maintenance, etc.

They will not void my warranty if I have my regular maintenance done elsewhere, or heaven forbid, if I change the oil myself.. (just keep records). They don't even care where I was trained to drive or "who" issued my license. They even keep the sales department seperate from the service department.. One is not a loss leader to the other..

When will the dive industry realize this can be used to their advantage. Knowledge is power. You need to use that knowledge to purchase wisely.

Many of the LDS's that are against internet sales.. are more against knowledgable consumers. If you know what you are talking about, they cannot BS you.. Just listen to the "sales pitch".

Just my experiences...

 

[devolution365]

May as well throw in my 2¢

This arguement is the same over and over. The LDS feels that the internet is changing the economy so they can't compete, and their strongest arguement is to ask where we'll get our tank filled if they go under. Well, the answer to both in my opionion (at least as it pertains to those in the US) is...

Free Enterprise

Sorry. You as an LDS must set yourself apart to gain my business. I work hard for my money. I spend a lot of time researching any big purchases I make. But I also make a consideration for good service. There's a lot of things a LDS can provide that an online shop can't. Large differences in price may outweigh those advantages, however.

If, in the end, my LDS goes under I can get tank fills at the local quarry. With the number of divers in the area surely someone would pick up the slack. Local sporting goods store (ie Sportmart)? If there's a need that means there's money to be had, and I guarantee someone will be there to take it. Supply and demand. Your scare tactics serve only to turn me off of the LDS. Luckily, mine has been great so far. Their prices are a bit high, so I'll pick and choose what I buy there, but their sevice has been excellent, so for some stuff it's worth it.

In the end, it's all up to the individual whether the extra expense of buying at their LDS is worth it or not. Either way I don't see the sport suffering at all.

:bomb: :icon10: :bomb:
*ducking*

 

[devolution365]

I purchased my last vehicle on line (Dodge Dakota 4X4).. get the best price (multiple quotes from local dealers).. Went in the dealer, test drove the vehicle, and was done in 30 mins.. Signed sealed.. and delivered 3 days later.

Heh. I recently shopped for a car online and had a similar experience! I'm not good at haggling, so I did all kinds of research about how much I should pay, then contacted 4 dealers online for quotes. They all came back with quotes LESS than what I was told to expect to pay (by Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds, Consumer Reports, etc). I couldn't believe it and expected to get the hard sell on scotch guard or something when I went in to sign the papers, but it was a piece of cake! -I'll never shop for a car the "old way" again!

 

[Wayward Son]

:beer_yum: