Land of Free Speech

[Arnaud]

As often, there are 2 levels to consider. One is regarding the legality, the other is the morality. In this case, the legal question is (or was) whether the individual is protected by the NY's Human Rights Law. The moral question is whether he should be protected by the HRL or the First Amendment. A follow-up question is to which extent this would affect private property.

PK, no matter what is going on, I am an optimistic. I strongly believe that the First Amendment is still going strong and that a lot of people are standing to defend free speech. It is however critical not to take it for granted. The mob mentality is not anything new, neither in the States or anywhere else. And it can work either way...

 

[Arnaud]

Cherry once bubbled...

I think that last statement is at the heart of the matter you can't create a Democracy. It didnt work any time in the past that the US has tried to do it. they have to be born. some times it takes a bloody war like the American revolution. sometimes it is a political birth like the British North America Act and it take 100 years. You cant "create" countries. Iraq, Iran,Saudi, Palistine,Jordan all created by forgien powers and still a mess.

Cherry

Could not agree more. Except that Palestine is not a country (yet)...

 

[Cherry]

Have look in a history book. It was created as a protectorate of GB as Syria was a protectorate of France. Like i said countries that are created by outside forces are problems. Israel was a country born of struggle some would say terrorism played a part. But like President Regan said when desribing the Contras ..."one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter..." Personally terror is terror Contra, Irgun,Stern gang or hezballah (sp)

Cherry

Oh am I gonna get flammed for saying that about Regan ut: :boom: :whack:

 

[Bob3]

... an obscene T-Shirt ...

Obviously the mall owners think the idea of peace is obscene.

:tease:

 

[pufferfish]

Boy for all those victims of a supposed troll you all sure bit hard! I thought the story would highlight many issues that needed debating in the current political environment. The mob mentality can be very intimidating and unless people stand up and protect the individual right of free speech democracy is at risk. When I read certain posters telling other American citizens they disagree with to "get the **** out" of the country this is worrisome. It is a slippery slope to go from "get out" chanted by the mob, to go to jail, or to kill the ****. Are not these the same tactics used by the tyrant we hope to remove over there in the desert?

NEW thank you for a thorough review of the legal issues involved here. I had not even considered the mall being private property. Nonetheless as you say it was "boneheaded" in that this guy was arrested in the first place. I read about a guy on an Amtrak train who had an offensive shirt on and was asked to turn his shirt inside out by the staff. He refused to take off his shirt but offered to zip up his jacket so the shirt couldn't be seen. That didn't satisfy the staff and they threw him off the train 30km from his destination. Amtrak subsequently apologized and settled privately with the guy. Would Amtrak not be private property as well or is this a government agency?

I read an article by a Canadian nurse recently from Texas who said she refuses to discuss her views on these issues for fear of the mob. I had to laugh when she said they call her a 'snowback' down there. It is this fear of freedom of expression in the current environment which is pernicious and should be confronted head on by all Americans.

KKM nice try on the highjack attempt but this is a serious thread. But let me tell you those banana farts are real bad

 

[Arnaud]

Cherry once bubbled...
Have look in a history book.

The Sykes-Picot agreement! Thanks for refreshing my memory.

 

[The Chairman]

Guard: Sir take that t-shirt off or leave!
Lawyer: But your mall just sold it to me! You mean that you just sold me something I can't wear?
Guard: That's right sir, the idea of peace is just so offensive that we must insist that you take it off or leave.
Lawyer: So your basic premise is that peace is un-American and that while you will let me buy the shirt to help support your mall, now that I have bought it, you won't let me wear it?
Guard: That's free enterprise sir. Rush told me to do it this way.
Lawyer: But I can wear a shirt that says "I want to nuke the Iraqi bastards".
Guard: Those are on sale right beside the kiosk you bought this one from. Only commie pinkos would wear "Give peace a chance" t-shirt.

Unpopular belief #1... I can disagree with my country, and even with the president himself and still be patriotic. I love the USA. I hate Saddamn and Osama.

Unpopular belief #2... It is wrong for an establishment to sell a garment and then restrict when it can be worn. They gave up rights to "refuse service" when they sold it to him. I don't care that a "vendor" sold it... they rent the space, and so have rented the right for their customers to wear their goods in that mall as well. The only restrictions should be for lewd behaviour and such, like wearing only the panties you just bought. And of course, we have to ban skateboards just to tick off our kids.

Unpopular belief #3... Bush should finish his first project (remember ol' Bin Laden???) before moving on to others. I know his daddy should have done something with Saddamn a long time ago, but it just makes it look like we are just itching for a fight to soothe some nationalistic pride. As of yet, I don't think a connection has been made between Saddamn and 9-11. Osama and Saddamn are ANYTHING but allies. Korea is a far bigger threat.

BTW, if he is only using the "threat" of war to impell Saddamn to disarm, then I would agree with that. If that is case though, he sure has me fooled.

 

[Walter]

At this point, I won't get sucked into the debate, but one fact is being misunderstood.

The T-shirts to "Give Peace a Chance" were not on sale. It was a design your own t-shirt special order.

 

[Aquamaniac]

NetDoc once bubbled...
Guard: Sir take that t.................<snip>..............., he sure has me fooled.

Best comment in this thread so far, rational and objective.

 

[Cherry]

If thats case then Maybe we should order some T-shirts with DIR-doing it right on the Front and a photo of the winner of the "hottest male" Thread for the ladies and the "hottest female" Thread for the guys...Of course in order to maintain my bobbithood I will insist on a photo of my wife on mine :mean: