Kiss rebreather bail out

[ba_hiker]

What are people doing for OC bail out systems with the sport kiss? Do without/depend on your dilutant, sling a stage bottle, or add a third tank to the basic setup? If you mount a third tank, where did you mount it? How much gas (for bail out) do you cary?

 

[caveseeker7]

What are people doing for OC bail out systems with the sport kiss?

The question is posted a bit prematurely as only a handfull of them have been delivered, and afaik not to anyone here or at TDS.

But I asume users will do the as with any CCR that carries a samll (2 or 3 ltr) dil tank:
Sling another 3 ltr for bailout. A 3 ltr tank should be enough for rec profiles.

If you've have looked at Curt Bowen's pictures from ZeroG this summer, that's what Gordon and Kim did, too.
A separate tank is also what they recommend doing for redundancy apart from cylinder size.

 

[Curt McNamee]

I sling a 40 cuft with air or what ever works best for the deepest part of my dive and sling a 13 cuft with O2. Then, you also have your diluent tank for backup. I would not want to rely on that, but for me it is another 19 cuft. You have to plan enough bailout gas to get you out of the water safely at any time during your dive.

 

[nitrojunkie]

Bail-out is profile dependent as well as team based for most longer rebreather dives. If you figure a 60 minute bottom time - say 30 minutes at 120' going out and 30 Minutes at 90' return, a pretty common wall dive... you would only have around 10-15 minutes of deco on the breather but if you have to bail-out you could be looking at 45-60 minutes deco on air. (V-Planner)

At Zero Gravity we were planning 1.5 to 2 hour run times on the rebreather, so bail-out requirements really were team based. I dived a lot with Gordon and Kim, I think they were slinging 30's or 40's and diving as a pair and often with others nearby should a need arise. I don't think anyone had to bail-out the entire event. The majority of divers at ZG were diving much deeper 200-300' and would sling two 30 or 40's bottom mix/02 for redundancy and bail-out. A few folks would sling 80's on deeper dives. The deep divers would definately have needed a team approach to bail-out.

So depending on Conservative settings, RMV, stress levels, etc... a 30-40/ft MIGHT be enough, but certainly two or three divers in a team would be able to support one bail-out scenario with a pair of 30's or 40's. A 19/ft might be fine if you really limit your profile to no-deco... but as soon as you have wracked up an obligation of more than a couple of minutes on the rebreather the safe bet is go with more bail-out rather than less.

I always like to plan to have enough gas on me that I can "get out" without anyone else's gas but it is not always practical. It's always a bit of a surprise when you run dive planning software and do bail-out scenarios just how much gas you should be carrying for bail-out... because we never dive deeper or longer than we planned do we>;-)

Doug

 

[padiscubapro]

Bail-out is profile dependent as well as team based for most longer rebreather dives. If you figure a 60 minute bottom time - say 30 minutes at 120' going out and 30 Minutes at 90' return, a pretty common wall dive... you would only have around 10-15 minutes of deco on the breather but if you have to bail-out you could be looking at 45-60 minutes deco on air. (V-Planner)

At Zero Gravity we were planning 1.5 to 2 hour run times on the rebreather, so bail-out requirements really were team based. I dived a lot with Gordon and Kim, I think they were slinging 30's or 40's and diving as a pair and often with others nearby should a need arise. I don't think anyone had to bail-out the entire event. The majority of divers at ZG were diving much deeper 200-300' and would sling two 30 or 40's bottom mix/02 for redundancy and bail-out. A few folks would sling 80's on deeper dives. The deep divers would definately have needed a team approach to bail-out.

So depending on Conservative settings, RMV, stress levels, etc... a 30-40/ft MIGHT be enough, but certainly two or three divers in a team would be able to support one bail-out scenario with a pair of 30's or 40's. A 19/ft might be fine if you really limit your profile to no-deco... but as soon as you have wracked up an obligation of more than a couple of minutes on the rebreather the safe bet is go with more bail-out rather than less.

I always like to plan to have enough gas on me that I can "get out" without anyone else's gas but it is not always practical. It's always a bit of a surprise when you run dive planning software and do bail-out scenarios just how much gas you should be carrying for bail-out... because we never dive deeper or longer than we planned do we>;-)

Doug

Hey doug,
How are things going???
I'm looking on going back to Sunset house in January to run a trimix program...

During Zero Gravity I was slinging two 40s, 1 with bottom mix one with 50%.. I personally feel carrying O2 is a waste.. A second breathable mix is a better choice, especially since the boats were hanging o2 and a few divers had o2, if you really wanted to use it, but even with an oxygen reg failure, 50% runs the RB just fine.....

 

[nitrojunkie]

Hey doug,
How are things going???
I'm looking on going back to Sunset house in January to run a trimix program...

Joe,

I wish I could do January but I am doing the Socorro trip on the Nautilus Explorer. Besides, I'm caribbean'd out at this point, I was in TCI last month with Big Blue and am doing some cool wreck stuff next week in FLA on the RV Tiburon.

Please do keep me posted on other trimix opportunities, I have to get this cert sooner rather than later.

By the way, how does the rebreather behave with 50% O2 plugged in? Like a semi-semi closed unit I would guess. I've never tried it. Do you plug it in via manual or through a gas block. I know you have a wealth of experience getting low-o2 in exotic destinations across the globe... i would love to learn more about some of these issues.

Doug

 

[padiscubapro]

Joe,

I wish I could do January but I am doing the Socorro trip on the Nautilus Explorer. Besides, I'm caribbean'd out at this point, I was in TCI last month with Big Blue and am doing some cool wreck stuff next week in FLA on the RV Tiburon.

Please do keep me posted on other trimix opportunities, I have to get this cert sooner rather than later.

By the way, how does the rebreather behave with 50% O2 plugged in? Like a semi-semi closed unit I would guess. I've never tried it. Do you plug it in via manual or through a gas block. I know you have a wealth of experience getting low-o2 in exotic destinations across the globe... i would love to learn more about some of these issues.

Doug

I'll plug the 50% into one of the manual injection ports. The deeper you are the less you have to inject so it behaves fairly well deep, when you get shallower you will have to inject more, eventually you will reach a point where you can only reach the PO2 of 50%... Its still pretty efficient and you have a gas thats usable over a much longer range than oxygen in the event you have to go OC..

The only difference is that you will have to vent some gas periodically... I guess you could call it a "Manual constant PO2 SCR", at depth you wount vent much, your venting will have to increase as you get shallower, but its still very efficient.

 

[dive]

The question is posted a bit prematurely as only a handfull of them have been delivered, and afaik not to anyone here or at TDS.

I just got the SPORT on the 18th , and got done working on cerfication with Ron Benson from Going Under Dive Center (www.goinguner.net) in Minneapolis. He say 30cf bailout is just fine. So the question is not a bit prematurely

 

[Curt McNamee]

I just got the SPORT on the 18th , and got done working on cerfication with Ron Benson from Going Under Dive Center (www.goinguner.net) in Minneapolis. He say 30cf bailout is just fine. So the question is not a bit prematurely

Hi Dive- How do you like the Sport KISS?. Ron is coming out here to Seattle to certify my girlfriend and I on the KISS Classic this coming week. How was Ron as an instructor?. Have you joined the KISS site?. Have fun!

 

[caveseeker7]

So the question is not a bit prematurely

Twelve posts in almost as many months with this being what, your first, in the rebreather section after having your rebreather for ten days ... why didn't I immediately think of you???