Kicked out of Nitrox Class!!

[MikeFerrara]

biscuit7 once bubbled...
Mike,

The problem for us, the consumers, is that the manufacturers sell the product when we buy it from the LDS or from the internet. They have no stake in keeping the LDS in business because for them they don't lose business either way. I have bought almost everything from my LDS and I don't mind that I paid more than online prices, but the reality is if I don't have a relationship with a local dealer for a product line I like, why not buy online?

I'm aggrievated that the manufacturers have this weird dealership thing to begin with. You can buy Tide and Pampers everywhere, that allows everyone to compete based on other factors, like service and support (ok, the Pampers example is a bad one). It doesn't make sense from their business perspective to leave out potential customer pools by limiting the number of shops that sell the product. At the same time, there is a increased burden to the LDS if they are allowed to sell everything because of the increased overhead of inventory.

I dunno, now I'm just rambling.

Rachel

There are no easy answers that I know of. Consumers are frustrated by the lds prices. Some lds's are also frustrated (not all). It's a difficult climate. On one hand the manufacturer tells us how much stuff we have to sell each year to keep a dealership and on the other hand they restrict pricing. What choices are left. Maybe things like insist your DM's and instructors help sell your stuff? Maybe keep the die hard internet shopers away from your other customers if you can? Maybe pump through as many new students as you can as fast as you can (for the mask and fin sales)?

I recently had a equipment rep try to get me to give the class away free with an equipment package. he would make out ok. I.ve had equipment reps who have never tought a class in their life lecture me on how to modify my teaching to sell more of his gear. When I told him he was nuts he threatened to pull the dealership.

Most divers have no idea.

 

[Rick Murchison]

domino22 once bubbled...
I have rapidly read most of the responces and have the following responce to comments recieved. 1) Dive shop is "WE-B-Divin" 8451-D North Richland Hills, Texas.76180. (817)605-8833. www.we-b-divin.com divers@we-b-divin.com 2) Owner and instructor who threw me out of the nitrox course 05/21/2003 at approx 8 pm CST-Judy Kay 3) I will compose a complaint letter this weekend when I cool down and send it registered mail on Tuesday to PADI filing my complaint.4) I was so shook up I forgot about my $25 deposit she still has. Based on the over whelming responce I am glad ya'll feel the same utter amazement that I felt and have been replaying in my mind since last night!

Thanks,
I've let 'em know they're takin' a grilling here and invited them to come defend themselves.
We shall see...
Rick

 

[Doof]

Does it strike anybody else as odd (or hypocritical, or even ironic) that this shop, that threw a student out of a class for buying a computer online, SELLS EQUIPMENT ON THE WEB?

http://store.yahoo.com/we-b-divin/

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Groundhog246 once bubbled...


Legally speaking, NO. In retail terms your course is a "product" and you don't have the legal right to refuse to sell that "product" to anyone (exception for gear, you CAN require a C card, same as a card renatl company can require proof you have a drivers license). Now, you can ask them to establish they're physically fit enough, require a medical clearance, etc., but you can't unilaterally refuse to provide the course.

I disagree. I can unilaterally refuse a student for any reason that doesn't fall under a prohibited category, such as race, gender, sexual preference, age and a few others. There is, quite simply, nothing anyone can do about it.

Similarly, an LDS can institute a policy of refusing to teach to people who bought online. Its not a violation of the Sherman or the Clayton Acts because there is neither a conspiracy to monopolize, an attempt to monopolize, an actual monopoly or, for that matter, any realistic chance that a single LDS would have the kind of market power that would make this possible.

I've turned away a couple of people who wanted refresher courses. One was an idiot. He knew it all and wasn't prepared to listen. I just didn't like the other.

As for suits, etc..., get a grip. He paid for a course. The measure of damages would be the value of the course that he didn't receive. Since he got the money back, there are no damages.

I'm not saying that the LDS was right. However, it is their decision and no one else's. The best thing to do is walk away to another shop.

Of course, you'll have a hard time finding an LP rescue course. But that an issue for another day.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Groundhog246 once bubbled...


The bar must have a reason, "I don't like you" isn't good enough. "You've had enough" is and I'd think, "you caused trouble the last time you drank here" would be also.

This is simply incorrect as a matter of law. A bar, or any other business, can refuse service or goods for any reason it wants, unless the reason is specifically prohibited by statute.

Discrimination is unlawful when its based upon prohibited categories. Everything else is fair game.

Perhaps things are different up there in the People's Republic. Down here, business owners still have some rights.

 

[runvus4]

I'm with Northeastwrecks on that one. Any store or professional can decide not to sell/service you for any reason as long as the reason is not one of the legally protected catagories (eg race, religion, gender, and in some states sexual orientation).

I also think that there is more to the story than was posted. Certainly even if there were mitigating circumstances, the dive shop should not have operated in such a fashion. At least they were upfront with you...

What was your relationship with the dive shop? You say that you purchased items from them? Was it expensive items? Small items? Did you pump them for info on gear that you then bought online?

As well, by filing complaint, even if satisfying, I would think is even more personal vindication on their part that you would have been the type of customer that would have been more trouble than worth to service....

 

[Braunbehrens]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

I just turned down a student because she was 11 years old. The agency says that's old enough. I say I don't take students that yong.

Mike, you just went up 10 notches in my book! My daughter is 11, and there is not a single kid in her class that should be allowed to dive. I think it's a disgrace what PADI is doing, and frankly, one more reason to use that other agency with the 3 letters. PADI is just intersted in getting more and more people through the door, who cares if they are properly trained, too young, etc.. etc.

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Some of us do but when we raise training prices and were the only ones we just don't sell classes.

Lower the price and they will come...

Mike, what you need to do is teach a class that costs more, is longer, teaches real skills, and explain to new divers why you do this. Print out the recent "incident report" posted to this board. You have to practice how to deal with bad situations, and none of the cheap scuba classes can take the time to do this. The confidence one gains by knowing one is able to cope with an OOA and no mask situation, is invaluable.

There are people willing to pay for this. Why do you think all these people are taking DIR-F? The card doesn't do you any good in terms of fills, or anything else. All you get is a good dose of getting your butt kicked and learning skills.

I'll stop ranting now.

 

[jonnythan]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
I think it's a disgrace what PADI is doing, and frankly, one more reason to use that other agency with the 3 letters.

You mean SSI?

 

[wreckchick]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...


Mike, what you need to do is teach a class that costs more, is longer, teaches real skills, and explain to new divers why you do this. Print out the recent "incident report" posted to this board. You have to practice how to deal with bad situations, and none of the cheap scuba classes can take the time to do this. The confidence one gains by knowing one is able to cope with an OOA and no mask situation, is invaluable.

Mike, feel free to use that incident as an example of things that can and do go wrong. I think the class I took did a pretty good job of covering the basics, but didn't teach some of the critical thinking skills and situational awareness that would have helped me.

Rachel

 

[Genesis]

I sent them an email and pointed out that this kind of behavior might justify a new "section" on www.diversunion.org

I suspect they might not like that very much....

BTW, to the original poster - you might want to check out that URL in my signature. And tell your friends. And encourage them to ALL buy online.

And people wonder why folks have a poor opinion of the LDS industry...... doesn't take much wondering, does it?