Just how 'real' should a rescue scenario be?

[Khrissi]

Definately worthy thread. I have to teach tree climber rescue situations ( chainsaw cuts / tree falls / impact injury situations ) and you cannot make them harsh enuff. It wakes people up to how it can go wrong so incredibly quick. And how fast you must react to be effective.. k

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Definately worthy thread. I have to teach tree climber rescue situations ( chainsaw cuts / tree falls / impact injury situations ) and you cannot make them harsh enuff. It wakes people up to how it can go wrong so incredibly quick. And how fast you must react to be effective.. k

I can imagine. Always makes me nervous seeing you guys dangling from a tree wielding a chainsaw! Serious respect!

On that note, our Instructor was discussing the use of underwater power tools and the difference in legislation. For example, obviously you guys need specific training and certification to use a chainsaw, but a UK commercial diver doesn't. Chainsaw / Underwater / Umbilical Cord, what could possibly go wrong

 

[tomcatbubba]

I like to make things realistic to a point. There is a line that gets crossed when you may end up making a scenario a real rescue, or injuring a student. I've heard of some rescuees getting up under structure, or putting their head in a back to limit bubbles on the surface. This is overkill IMO and has the potential to injure someone. That said, I take my time and introduce things slowly and make sure people are absolutely comfortable before moving to the final scenario which is the amalgamation of almost all skills introduced in the course. It works for me from a risk mitigation standpoint, and my students feel pushed without making it dangerous.

I had a young couple do the PADI rescue course with me this summer, in preparation for a live aboard in Australia. They put their skills to good use the first dive. A lady bolted from depth, panicked on the surface until passing out, then had to be towed back and full CPR with AED and O2. She lived. My students were involved in the entire rescue. I'm confident I taught the course well, without making it realistic to the point it becomes dangerous.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

I like to make things realistic to a point. There is a line that gets crossed when you may end up making a scenario a real rescue, or injuring a student. I've heard of some rescuees getting up under structure, or putting their head in a back to limit bubbles on the surface. This is overkill IMO and has the potential to injure someone. That said, I take my time and introduce things slowly and make sure people are absolutely comfortable before moving to the final scenario which is the amalgamation of almost all skills introduced in the course. It works for me from a risk mitigation standpoint, and my students feel pushed without making it dangerous.

I had a young couple do the PADI rescue course with me this summer, in preparation for a live aboard in Australia. They put their skills to good use the first dive. A lady bolted from depth, panicked on the surface until passing out, then had to be towed back and full CPR with AED and O2. She lived. My students were involved in the entire rescue. I'm confident I taught the course well, without making it realistic to the point it becomes dangerous.

Wow, that's quite a testament to your students and you for giving them the skills and confidence to save someone's life. It's nice when things turn out well.

 

[Khrissi]

I can imagine. Always makes me nervous seeing you guys dangling from a tree wielding a chainsaw! Serious respect!

On that note, our Instructor was discussing the use of underwater power tools and the difference in legislation. For example, obviously you guys need specific training and certification to use a chainsaw, but a UK commercial diver doesn't. Chainsaw / Underwater / Umbilical Cord, what could possibly go wrong

..... I think they will need chainsaw certification in UK but it will be hilareous finding a UK chainsaw assessor who will go 20m to certify . Saw Birmingham Scuba expo stand with dry suit diver guy with hydraulic chainsaw with Stone teeth on it fr slotting concrete piles in North Sea. Sod that fr a job. K

 

[tomcatbubba]

Wow, that's quite a testament to your students and you for giving them the skills and confidence to save someone's life. It's nice when things turn out well.

Thank you, but 50% of the credit should go to PADI. They have developed a very good Rescue course, if we teach it as the instructor manual dictates. The other 50%, as you alluded, goes to my former students. They stepped up in a stressful situation and did what they were trained to.

 

[mmerriman]

for me the most important thing in a rescue class is the no one gets hurt. a degree of realism is important, but what I'm trying to teach is a process and technique that will come back to the student when in a real emergency

 

[Skb]

Do militaries train soldiers by conducting a training attack on a base that seems to be the real thing? Do police academies train officers by making them think they are in an actual shootout with armed robbers? Are pilots trained in an actual plane by simulating a hijacking or loss of engines? I can't think of anything other than scuba where training for emergencies is done by tricking the student into thinking it's an actual emergency.

Yes they do. Realistic training produces someone who can react in real situations.

 

[tomcatbubba]

Realism in simulation vs. perception of reality are different. I have over 2000 hours flying Navy fighters, off of aircraft carriers. Training for emergencies was the better part of my adult life. I never once was tricked into thinking a situation was real. It was briefed as a simulation or training event every single time. In my new job we have active shooter drills. Can you imagine if someone didn't know it was drill? I can guarantee either someone would get hurt, or the authorities would be called which would result in guns drawn and somebody shot. You can make things real enough to simulate an actual emergency and achieve good training, without crossing a line, degrading from actual learning or putting students or staff in danger.

 

[Skulmoski]

If one is assessing according to an agency standard (e.g. PADI), then the situation is as prescribed by the standard. Should an instructor deviate from the standard (e.g. "enhance the experience"), then they could be invalidating the assessment, and indeed causing an unsafe situation. You can find the standard using a search engine.

Standards = Quality

We do not want regulator manufacturers to deviate from ISO 9001:2000 standards, nor should we deviate from certification agency standards.

The PADI Rescue course that I did had elements of reality such as it is difficult moving, carrying, and lifting another diver; but with instructor guidance and practice, Rescue skills to the agency standard can usually be attained by most students.

Good luck.