June 29 Diver Death at Casino Point in Catalina
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reggieferrari
Guest
I was there today and I saw the whole thing happen. Really tragic. I asked a dive shop who said they spoke to the sheriff and that his regulator said he was at 6ft for 13 min. doesn't make much sense. The odd part was how hed get separated from his buddy at 6 ft. I feel horrible for the people he was with. He was diving with the husband of a dive instructor who was teaching a class of 7. I know he was certified and that was it. Id like to know more as well if anyone knows.
tragic.
tragic.
I heard the emergency call on the radio while I was still at the dive shop. I waited an hour before going out to the point so I wouldn't be in the way. I've heard conflicting information so I think it best to await an official statement on this incident.
Very sad as it is the second death in less than a month. My condolences to any family or friends who may be on SB.
Very sad as it is the second death in less than a month. My condolences to any family or friends who may be on SB.
Trianii
Guest
Ken Kurtis
Contributor
Here's a thought:
As a diving community, we know very little at this point. I am the Forensic Consultant for the LA Corner and I have only very sketchy info at this point (12 hours or so after the accicent). How about if we pledge to stop speculating? If you have some direct first-hand information, I'd be happy to hear it. (Please contact me directly at 310/652-4990.) Realize it takes us a while (4-8 weeks) to fully assemble the picture of what might have happened. Give us some time to do our jobs. But if you've got pertinent info, relay it through the proper channels.
As a diving community, we know very little at this point. I am the Forensic Consultant for the LA Corner and I have only very sketchy info at this point (12 hours or so after the accicent). How about if we pledge to stop speculating? If you have some direct first-hand information, I'd be happy to hear it. (Please contact me directly at 310/652-4990.) Realize it takes us a while (4-8 weeks) to fully assemble the picture of what might have happened. Give us some time to do our jobs. But if you've got pertinent info, relay it through the proper channels.
With all due respect, Ken, this forum isn't just a place for the official conclusions to be posted. I don't see any reason why people with first-hand information should necessarily only communicate it to you or "through the proper channels", privacy and liability issues notwithstanding. That said, I wholeheartedly agree that uninformed speculation is unhelpful at best and harmful at worst.
I spent a lot of time last night reflecting on my personal observations yesterday. Three points stand out to me as significant, regardless of the eventual determination of the cause of the accident.
First, I was greatly impressed by the immediate and decisive response by many of the divers at the scene. The rescue efforts may not have helped, but I do not believe they could have been handled any better. Well done.
Second, all divers should continue their training at least through Rescue Diver. Immediately before the accident, I was talking with a student about taking an upcoming rescue class. Afterward, he said, "I had no idea what to do when that happened. I guess I'm taking that rescue class after all." There's no such thing as being too prepared. Someday, instead of dozens of skilled responders, any one of us might be the only person available to help.
Third, buddy awareness and communication are essential. Yesterday, a significant amount of time passed between when the victim was discovered and when the rest of his group was identified. Anyone who leads dives knows that it can be very difficult to keep track of all members of a group, especially when viz isn't great and there are lots of people in the water. Be certain that students know to maintain close buddy contact AND how and when to communicate to the DM or instructor that their buddy is missing. I'm going to revise my own briefings to include more specific and detailed instructions for such an event.
I spent a lot of time last night reflecting on my personal observations yesterday. Three points stand out to me as significant, regardless of the eventual determination of the cause of the accident.
First, I was greatly impressed by the immediate and decisive response by many of the divers at the scene. The rescue efforts may not have helped, but I do not believe they could have been handled any better. Well done.
Second, all divers should continue their training at least through Rescue Diver. Immediately before the accident, I was talking with a student about taking an upcoming rescue class. Afterward, he said, "I had no idea what to do when that happened. I guess I'm taking that rescue class after all." There's no such thing as being too prepared. Someday, instead of dozens of skilled responders, any one of us might be the only person available to help.
Third, buddy awareness and communication are essential. Yesterday, a significant amount of time passed between when the victim was discovered and when the rest of his group was identified. Anyone who leads dives knows that it can be very difficult to keep track of all members of a group, especially when viz isn't great and there are lots of people in the water. Be certain that students know to maintain close buddy contact AND how and when to communicate to the DM or instructor that their buddy is missing. I'm going to revise my own briefings to include more specific and detailed instructions for such an event.
JMB2262
Guest
I agree with Scot this forum should be a learning environment and not one of speculation. I was out at the point teaching as well and there was significant time spent looking for anyone who knew the diver. Although I already spend time speaking about missing/lost buddy scenarios, I too will include some things in my briefings about emergencies (i.e. get control of your students and keep them out of the way of the emergency personnel). If they are not a medic, EMT, Doctor or nurse and they is already enough help keep them out of they way.
The problem with asking folks not to speculate is many fold.
First, while speculation will not tell us what happened in a particular incident, it will tell us what might have happened. In fact, we usually hear about several possibilities. In doing so, we learn how to avoid similar situations in our future dives. What happened in one particular case is less important than thousands of SB members learning to be safer divers by avoiding mistakes that might have been made if not for the speculation.
Next, we are often told we should wait for the official word about an incident, but I've yet to see anyone come back and post the official word. If we wait, we wait forever.
Telling people not to speculate is useless. People will speculate. I think that's a good thing.
First, while speculation will not tell us what happened in a particular incident, it will tell us what might have happened. In fact, we usually hear about several possibilities. In doing so, we learn how to avoid similar situations in our future dives. What happened in one particular case is less important than thousands of SB members learning to be safer divers by avoiding mistakes that might have been made if not for the speculation.
Next, we are often told we should wait for the official word about an incident, but I've yet to see anyone come back and post the official word. If we wait, we wait forever.
Telling people not to speculate is useless. People will speculate. I think that's a good thing.
I agree 100%. Whenever I get Scuba Diving magazine, I always read "Lessons for Life" first. Thinking about possible modes of failure, talking about them with other divers, researching gear info, and considering what you would do in the same situation is a great way to make yourself into a safer diver.
These topics should best be thought of as jumping-off points for a good, healthy, respectful discussion. Condolences are great and appropriate, but they do not replace the need for careful accident analysis or even the "off topic" discussions that make up these pages. You may never read about the death that was prevented by someone considering all the possible explanations for a fatal accident, but believe me it happens every day...
It's best not to think about this forum as an official transcript that will be used to assess blame and fault, but rather as just a place for friends to get together and brainstorm...
Mike
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