Judging a diver's experience: logging number of dives and hours of dive time

[TMHeimer]

I've often wondered how people rack up thousands of "dives". I dive an awful lot but can only rack up one dive per day, maybe two if the tides are right. Typical dives are a couple of hours to drive to the site, loading and steaming out to site, diving for an hour or two, steaming back and driving another couple of hours home, i.e. a whole day for one dive. Admittedly those dives may be long and deep, but they only count for "one" dive. I don't bother counting them now, but it's around 600 over the past 9 years and the past 6 diving as much as I can, in reality this means most weekends, with loads cancelled due to the British weather -- have had 7 days blown out in the past 3 weeks, managing to dive 6 times. Last "summer" which was July through October due to the lockdowns, managed 27 dives with another 17 cancelled.

Was diving a few years ago at a holiday resort in Spain. The guy there was saying that he'd done some 350 intro to scuba dives that season alone. That plus instructing and dive leading would take his count of dives well over 700/year.

Personally I don't think those professional dives actually count as "dives". Sure, strictly speaking they are "dives", but they're not dives where he would learn things himself, and certainly not dives pushing the edge of his knowledge and experience -- all shallow, highly structured, running through training modules.

Would one count that kind of person as an "expert" diver because of his high number? How do you rank dive counts?

I think they all should count, shallow or deep, teaching or not. There is a lot of task loading on each course dive for the instructor. They may not be learning anything really new for their own diving, but I figure it is unusual for most recreational divers to learn anything truly new to them on most dives.
Most of my dives are in the 20-30+ foot depth level last few years. I should not count any of them?

I have seen some claim to have over 10,000 dives. I figured it out once that this is quite doable given you start early enough in life and dive A LOT regularly. Maybe even by a non-pro.
I'm actually on about the same average as you and should hit 1,000 in 2023 (that would make 18 years).

 

[boulderjohn]

I think they all should count, shallow or deep, teaching or not. There is a lot of task loading on each course dive for the instructor.

As I am sure is true for just about any instructor, I have never considered logging the pool sessions, but I did a heck of a lot of them during each year for a while, and my skills grew significantly as a result. My buoyancy was especially improved. As I worked with student groups, my back kicking and helicopter turning improved as I maneuvered around them.

As for logging the OW certification dives, I once saw someone in a thread say he did not log them. I think that is a mistake. I like the fact that I have a contemporary record of what happened on an instructional dive in the unlikely case that a student might later claim some sort of a problem occurred.

 

[Lostdiver71]

Poor diving skills are exacerbated when you change your environment.

It must be really odd to look down and see the bottom, even more so if it's a wall and it seems to go on forever.

Possibly one of the reasons the cold + poor visibility divers have "that attitude" is down to being more self-reliant. It's extremely difficult to buddy dive when you've 2m/6' of visibility and you're literally a fin-kick away from loosing contact.


Taking the other perspective; a warm water good vis diver in cold+poor conditions, it's the self reliance which is vital. You must be capable with dealing with what you get without getting flustered, be that buddy separation a sudden loss of visibility, straying inside a wreck, whatever. Lights, strong, narrow beamed and reliable ones, are pretty much essential. If diving in strong tides, then it's being able to shelter in or around the wreck. Navigation's also harder and it's not uncommon to use a line from a reel to help find things.

Putting up an SMB is the same as anywhere, just that you've no absolute frame of reference as to where you are in the water column - that's your computer's job and your skills to sort out the ascent and keep to the stops.


Really good point about the flora and fauna. No idea what fire coral is, but I bet it's not named for its colour!

Oh one day...

It is named for both the color, this is usually reddish with white tips, and the feeling you get if you brush up against it!

 

[Doc]

Yeah, it’s all in the set-up.

 

[The Chairman]

Seems like she had the stupid in abundance.

What you call "stupid", I call a combination of ego and a brain fart. But hey, it's your derogative to bash the dead.

It's what I don't know or overlook that bites me in the butt. When a local says to beware of something or suggests a different tack, I think you should pay them some mind. I certainly do.

 

[100days-a-year]

I have no problem with how other people log their dives, nor what dives they log. I just don't give much weight to that stuff.
Recreationally:
I averaged about 400 a year once I got the wife to get certified. She would do 100 to 200 a year.
We live in FL , have a boat that will take 4 divers and 12 tanks up to 40 miles each way with plenty of reserve range and took long vacations so our dive counts would naturally be higher than an inland diver reliant on charters or perfect conditions. I know several other guys in similar situations with similar counts.
Professionally:
I crewed, Captained or owned commercial spearfishing and lobstering boats and industry norm here is to make multiday trips. Most boat have compressors and carry 02 to make nitrox and for deco or emergency. Not unusual to do 5 to 7 tanks a day in waters from 80' to 180' for 4 to 7 days straight and repeat as often as weather and seasons permit. Pretty easy to rack up some pretty high numbers that way and as they are working dives and in various conditions you gain a lot of experience fairly quickly. Not unusual to see a guy with 30 years experience at 300+ dives a year and up to 500 some years.

 

[TMHeimer]

Actually, it's 60, but this is a case in point. The number of dives is meaningless. What matters is satisfactory completion of the course requirements. A divemaster candidate with 200 dives will not pass the class if the skill performance is not satisfactory.

Go ahead and quibble with the name. The name is likewise meaningless. A lot of the names of certifications are relics of a long gone past when there were almost no courses offered. Before Los Angeles created the Advanced Open Water program, there was only one course, other than instructor training, so they logically called this new, more advanced course "Advanced." It seems silly today, but when it was created, it was the most advanced course available to a non-instructor. Then agencies started adding specialty classes, and there were only a few, so they figured that someone who had taken all the courses available could claim to be a master scuba diver.

The term divemaster is certainly an example of a name people would probably prefer were different, but it is recognized throughout the world in its present form, and so it would be tough to change. Soon after I completed the divemaster certification, I was hired by the shop to assist with classes. In one of the first of those classes, the instructor I was assisting introduced me as "her divemaster." What she meant by that was "my lowly assistant," but that is not what the students understood. One of them later asked me if I was there to check up on her to make sure she did a good job. With a title like "divemaster," they figured I must be a scuba god.

Yes John! Enough of the Master thing. Really funny--- When I took OW in '05, at our first pool session the instructor said "this is Andy, my DM". MY first thought was the same-- he is there as a superior checking up on her! But, most students entering OW know little of the jargon, unless the join a place like scubaboard first.

 

[Cdncoldwater]

I think we should judge by cumulative total depth. A diver that has dived over a mile should be considered an accomplished diver. 10 miles should be required for DM type jobs and 100 miles for instructor.

I don't really agree, depth in the clear waters of a tropical site etc doesn't mean skill. I dove with a few divers during a trip, more dives than me or my son combined; certainly more "depth" but the DM paid little attention to us after our first dive and had to chase after or assist those "high milage" divers. I think good core skills, a variety of experience in different conditions etc is more important than depth, hours or number of dives.

 

[formernuke]

What you call "stupid", I call a combination of ego and a brain fart.

I'm going to agree with @Marie13 that is stupid. Weighting is dependent on your body type and your exposure protection. To think you could safely dive with the same weight in a 3mil or a skin that you use in a drysuit is just well stupid. To think that because you are used to cold water and low vis so you can do anything is also just stupid.

My only warm clear water experience was Roatan in 2010. The DM had to coach me off the boat because I thought 30ft was 3ft of water.

Cold low VIS divers get into trouble because we think if we can see this it is only a few feet away and in reality it is much further away.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm going to agree with @Marie13 that is stupid. Weighting is dependent on your body type and your exposure protection. To think you could safely dive with the same weight in a 3mil or a skin that you use in a drysuit is just well stupid. To think that because you are used to cold water and low vis so you can do anything is also just stupid.

My only warm clear water experience was Roatan in 2010. The DM had to coach me off the boat because I thought 30ft was 3ft of water.

Cold low VIS divers get into trouble because we think if we can see this it is only a few feet away and in reality it is much further away.

My mother was in Bermuda ready to dive off a dock (not scuba, a jumping dive) in like 1940. She tried to touch bottom and was later told it was 100' deep. I have experienced this a little in Panama (though the water wasn't THAT clear). It would seem to be something a cold water diver could just be told and then be prepared for. Any area that is new to a diver should signal caution. Even if it is a type of diving one is used to, but a new site. But, you know some people.