Wheatondiver
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PADI and I'm sure the other certifying agencies have a depth limit. PADI is 40 feet. Is this true and fast limit or a recommendation? If it is an absolute limit, why 40 feet? Why not 35? Why not 45? Why not 50 or 60?
Jr. Certification depth limit
- Thread starter Wheatondiver
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If your a PADI DM/Instructor it's a solid limit. If it's you and your kid the scuba police are not likely watching so do as you like. Why 40ft, don't know but I assume there were a lot of varibles taken into consideration.
It has to due with kids growth and other medical issues.
Why? Because that's what the medical field determined.
Gary D.
Why? Because that's what the medical field determined.
Gary D.
garyfotodiver
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Please forward data/citations of peer-reviewed research.
This has been discussed before. No one seems to have the data. IMHO, it is as much a liability issue for the certifying agencies as anything else. I doubt any researcher would put at risk the lives or well-being of children to determine the effects of pressure on growing bodies. Certainly, this could be statistically worked out, but then remember Mark Twain's comment about statistics.
On her third check-out dive, my then 12 year-old daughter was at 72 fsw inside a wreck with her instructor.
All this written, my children wait until they are 12 before they are allowed to take lessons. My decision; I am the father. It is ultimately my responsibility.
I don't think there is much data and that is more than likely what the problem is and where the restriction came from. People seem to lean to the side of caution.
I was doing >100' dives in Monterey on a regular basis at 14 and I’m still here and very healthy getting senior discounts. I know a lot of other divers that started out very young and haven’t had any problems from it.
I have heard it’s a maturity issue but I will call BS to that one. I know a lot of kids that have their head together better than their parents.
Gary D.
I was doing >100' dives in Monterey on a regular basis at 14 and I’m still here and very healthy getting senior discounts. I know a lot of other divers that started out very young and haven’t had any problems from it.
I have heard it’s a maturity issue but I will call BS to that one. I know a lot of kids that have their head together better than their parents.
Gary D.
Well, it's easier to swim to the surface from 40 feet than from 60 feet. Also, kids, I think, are less likely to pay attention to things like air supply--kids aren't usually as responsible as adults. (not a hard and fast rule, I know, and I don't have any peer review research to back this up, but there's a reason the limit for a driving permit is 15 in most states and higher in others.)
But, it's only a reccomendation. Heck, I think with my OW cert from PADI, I'm only supposed to be at 60 feet or higher. I've been down to 130. And I'm not supposed to be in any overhead, and I have been in several caverns. Suggestions and rules are not the same things, fortunately
edited to reply to Gary:
I think we would all agree that even though some parents are less responsible than some kids, that there are some parents that are more responsible than some kids. To make a hasty generalization, that no kid is responsible at 41 feet or deeper, and that all adults are, is stupid. I don't think we are making that generalization. I think there is something to be said for the fact that, speaking from a purely physiological standpoint, a 12/13/14/15/16/17/18 year old isless developed, in both body and mind, than, say, a 30 year old. Younger people have not had the experience that an older person has, to base their thinking off of, and their temporal lobes, or parietal lobes, or whatever the heck it is in the front of your head that deals with planning, is not as developed (according to my Psych textbook and professor) as a 30 year old's. Are they immature? No, they may be very mature. Are they younger? Yes, they are most definitely younger. I think we do need to respect that fact.
But, it's only a reccomendation. Heck, I think with my OW cert from PADI, I'm only supposed to be at 60 feet or higher. I've been down to 130. And I'm not supposed to be in any overhead, and I have been in several caverns. Suggestions and rules are not the same things, fortunately
edited to reply to Gary:
Gary D.:
I think we would all agree that even though some parents are less responsible than some kids, that there are some parents that are more responsible than some kids. To make a hasty generalization, that no kid is responsible at 41 feet or deeper, and that all adults are, is stupid. I don't think we are making that generalization. I think there is something to be said for the fact that, speaking from a purely physiological standpoint, a 12/13/14/15/16/17/18 year old isless developed, in both body and mind, than, say, a 30 year old. Younger people have not had the experience that an older person has, to base their thinking off of, and their temporal lobes, or parietal lobes, or whatever the heck it is in the front of your head that deals with planning, is not as developed (according to my Psych textbook and professor) as a 30 year old's. Are they immature? No, they may be very mature. Are they younger? Yes, they are most definitely younger. I think we do need to respect that fact.
I found this article by DocVikingo on children and diving, but I don't know that it truly addresses the hard depth limit question. The PFO issue is something I did not know about, though, and might form some of the basis for a shallower depth limit (they'll probably run out of gas before they run out of no-deco time, so a PFO would pose less risk, perhaps?). You might want to post the question in the medical forums.
The limit for Jr. AOW for a 12 year old is 70 feet.
Jeff
Jeff
Having lived in South Florida and the Keys growing up, I started diving at 12 and had more than 200 dives by the time I was 15, most in the 30 to 60 FT range but some deeper than 110 FT.
During that time I never had any diving "issues" and was often treated like an adult diving buddy by other divers. I can also assure you that "growth problems" never occurred in my case. In fact, if I'd have been smaller at 15, I probably would have had a lot more dates when I was 25, LOL.
During my time as an active instructor, I certified more than 50 "kids" age 11 to 17. The single 11 year old I certified was probably one of the most natural divers I ever instructed and I actually received special permission from Walt Hendricks at NAUI to certify him more than 9 months before his 12th birthday (at the time, 12 was the cut off age). In most cases, 12 years old was my minimum age, just because of size and maturity.
Almost all the kids I certified (including the 11 year old) did a 6 dive certification "profile." 2 dives in a training lake, 2 ocean dives in 30 to 40 FT of water, 1 wreck dive at 60 FT and one "tower" dive (an offshore structure) at 45 FT (all from a boat). On the final "tower" dive, each of them did a buddy breathing ascent (octopus and then single regulator sharing), followed by a simulated OOA swimming ascent. Every kid that got to that point always passed with flying colors (BTW, this stuff was all allowed using 1982 standards).
So, YES I'm a firm believer in kids diving. I recently trained both of my younger nieces and one of the girls routinely dives with me in 60 to 80 FT of water. Because of our size difference, I usually have another adult in our buddy team or dive with a group (see pics here). She will be diving the U-85 with us this summer in 110 FT of water. Last summer I started two of my nephews (6 and 7 year old boys) in the pool (actually in the hot tub first) and both now LOVE spending time underwater. The one boy has already figured out buoyancy control and how to "hover" by just watching me. I know adults that can't do that!
IMO, the depth and "stress" of a dive depends on what the kid can handle. Young children (10 and younger), pool only. 11-12 and 13, probably between 40 and 80 FT max depth depending on size and maturity. 14 and above, sport diving limits depending on the child. Keep in mind, this is OPINION, NOT standards. NEVER push a kid and ALWAYS make certain they can handle an emergency appropriately (this is why I like a 2 adult one child team). Also, as a diving parent or relative, never forget that YOUR responsibility drastically increases when diving with a kid compared to diving with another adult. I've seen adults who sometimes forget this and it can very quickly become problematic even in low stress conditions...
During that time I never had any diving "issues" and was often treated like an adult diving buddy by other divers. I can also assure you that "growth problems" never occurred in my case. In fact, if I'd have been smaller at 15, I probably would have had a lot more dates when I was 25, LOL.
During my time as an active instructor, I certified more than 50 "kids" age 11 to 17. The single 11 year old I certified was probably one of the most natural divers I ever instructed and I actually received special permission from Walt Hendricks at NAUI to certify him more than 9 months before his 12th birthday (at the time, 12 was the cut off age). In most cases, 12 years old was my minimum age, just because of size and maturity.
Almost all the kids I certified (including the 11 year old) did a 6 dive certification "profile." 2 dives in a training lake, 2 ocean dives in 30 to 40 FT of water, 1 wreck dive at 60 FT and one "tower" dive (an offshore structure) at 45 FT (all from a boat). On the final "tower" dive, each of them did a buddy breathing ascent (octopus and then single regulator sharing), followed by a simulated OOA swimming ascent. Every kid that got to that point always passed with flying colors (BTW, this stuff was all allowed using 1982 standards).
So, YES I'm a firm believer in kids diving. I recently trained both of my younger nieces and one of the girls routinely dives with me in 60 to 80 FT of water. Because of our size difference, I usually have another adult in our buddy team or dive with a group (see pics here). She will be diving the U-85 with us this summer in 110 FT of water. Last summer I started two of my nephews (6 and 7 year old boys) in the pool (actually in the hot tub first) and both now LOVE spending time underwater. The one boy has already figured out buoyancy control and how to "hover" by just watching me. I know adults that can't do that!
IMO, the depth and "stress" of a dive depends on what the kid can handle. Young children (10 and younger), pool only. 11-12 and 13, probably between 40 and 80 FT max depth depending on size and maturity. 14 and above, sport diving limits depending on the child. Keep in mind, this is OPINION, NOT standards. NEVER push a kid and ALWAYS make certain they can handle an emergency appropriately (this is why I like a 2 adult one child team). Also, as a diving parent or relative, never forget that YOUR responsibility drastically increases when diving with a kid compared to diving with another adult. I've seen adults who sometimes forget this and it can very quickly become problematic even in low stress conditions...
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