Joining the Dark Side. . .

[djanni]

There's no misconception... both back inflate BC's and bp/w's will push you forward when at the surface with a near empty AL80. There are ways to minimize and/or make it almost not noticable but you can't eliminate it. BTW, the Force is strong with my back inflation BCD and I've had quite a few dives with a bp/w as well so I've had them on and I know. Please don't try to tell me they don't do that.

Keep in mind I never said there's a single thing wrong with a bp/w. There isn't. They have their place and perform their speciality exceedingly well.

God's gift to diving... they are not!!!

To the majority it is the wrong side of the tracks. Many of the recreational agencies and instructors still have issues with BP/Ws. In fact, many have issues with back inflate BCs. They haven't experienced them and think they're bad. The common misperception is that they throw you on your face into the water. Anyone who says that hasn't ever put a back inflate or BP/W on. We're the dark side to them. The black sheep. The rebels.

Penny makes a good point. It's all about enlightenment...and not everyone can be enlightened.

 

[boxcar]

There's no misconception... both back inflate BC's and bp/w's will push you forward when at the surface with a near empty AL80. There are ways to minimize and/or make it almost not noticable but you can't eliminate it. BTW, the Force is strong with my back inflation BCD and I've had quite a few dives with a bp/w as well so I've had them on and I know. Please don't try to tell me they don't do that.

Don Janni,
While I understand that you're responding to a particular comment here, I find it difficult to understand such an absolute statement...('will push you forward', 'you can't eliminate it', '...so I know').

I agree with the point that the forward push can happen. I've experienced it 2-3 times in the my last 100 dives ...but that's hardly absolute. While your experience may indicate that this happens regularly (always?), what you claim to know isn't supported so absolutely by the testimony of others...Its nice to be aware of the issue, but to say that it 'will happen' and you 'can't eliminate it'...do you really think that's true?

I'm prepared to be conviced, but my experience differs significantly from what you're describing...and I'm getting a little tired of reassuring wide eyed noobs on dive trips who've heard tales of 'deadly' BIBCs or BP&Ws...Where do they get such extreme ideas?

 

[djanni]

One person said "they throw you on your face into the water."

I said they push you forward. They do push you forward but they don't throw you on your face. I also said one can minimize it to the point of it being almost not noticable.

So excuse my "absolute" statement. If you can have on a 3/2 wetsuit, a near empty al80, be properly weighted and with enough air in the bladder to float higher than your chin and not feel a slight forward push then more power to you. You the man.

Don Janni,
While I understand that you're responding to a particular comment here, I find it difficult to understand such an absolute statement...('will push you forward', 'you can't eliminate it', '...so I know').

I agree with the point that the forward push can happen. I've experienced it 2-3 times in the my last 100 dives ...but that's hardly absolute. While your experience may indicate that this happens regularly (always?), what you claim to know isn't supported so absolutely by the testimony of others...Its nice to be aware of the issue, but to say that it 'will happen' and you 'can't eliminate it'...do you really think that's true?

I'm prepared to be conviced, but my experience differs significantly from what you're describing...and I'm getting a little tired of reassuring wide eyed noobs on dive trips who've heard tales of 'deadly' BIBCs or BP&Ws...Where do they get such extreme ideas?

 

[boxcar]

I said they push you forward. They do push you forward but they don't throw you on your face. I also said one can minimize it to the point of it being almost not noticable.

Thanks for clearing that up.

So excuse my "absolute" statement. If you can have on a 3/2 wetsuit, a near empty al80, be properly weighted and with enough air in the bladder to float higher than your chin and not feel a slight forward push then more power to you. You the man.

Another one for my resume.

The common misperception is that they throw you on your face into the water.

There's no misconception...

Perhaps that is where I went wrong...I think I did misread your post, and if that's the case I'm prepared to admit it. My intention was not to cast dispersons on you, but I can't say I agreed with your logic and looked to me that you're trying to refute the statmen by dive-aholic...As I said before, I agree that the forward push exists (it happens), I'm just tired of people saying it WILL happen and extending that to some extreme that these are unsafe...(I know you weren't going there)

 

[xiSkiGuy]

Keep in mind I never said there's a single thing wrong with a bp/w. There isn't. They have their place and perform their speciality exceedingly well.

God's gift to diving... they are not!!!

What exactly would you say a BP/W’s “specialty” is?

Better Trim?
More secure tank?
Interchangeability?
More Streamlined?

I’d say the jacket-style BCD is more specialized: It excels at holding your nose out of the water at the surface.

 

[RiverRat]

I’d say the jacket-style BCD is more specialized: It excels at holding your nose out of the water at the surface.

That's why the mainstream divemasters and instructor industry clones love them. They spend a lot of time at the surface herding newbies together and BS'in instead of just getting in the water and diving. So they like the poodle jackets. I just don't get it. A BC is a BC. They both have their pros and cons. I have about a hundred dives (I know still an amatuer) in both S.S. and AL backplate/wing and jacket BC's with 3mm, 7mm and drysuits. Steel tanks, aluminum tanks. I can dive both types of BC well although I prefer one over the other. Just dive a balanced rig, proper trim etc. No need to fight about it.
Let the BP/W / Jacket wars die...................

 

[Wristshot]

7 pairs . . . .Although I think this year I'm going for some SX B-5s.

Well I am down to 7 because I sold 3 pair to friends last year.

Beta Race 9:16 at 150mm - bought for less than the value of the bindings
SL9:12 at 157mm - my awesome Slalom Race Skis
GS11 at 176mm - my GS race skis
10:22 at 183mm - Super G race skis, fast as heck, but long for me.
Beta Carv 9:14 at 160mm - my "rock skis", used as Slalom racers by a friend
R11 at 170mm - my "all-mountain" skis and travel skis
Sugar Daddy's at 163mm - latest purchase, powder skis.
------------------------

Back to the topic:

I checked out some BP/W setups on the ScubaBoard Bonaire Trip last week. Ed Parris was kind enough to let me try his DSS on. I was glad to get a chance to see a couple variations up close and personal, and to touch and try on some. I think that I will try the dark side. I also checked out some different add-on pockets.

I like my ScubaPro BC, but I like the idea of more streamlining, less bulk and weight in the suitcase, and the ability to adjust trim.

After you get switched over and get some dives complete, please share your feelings and your findings. Some will benefit, some will argue.


Wristshot

 

[Dive-aholic]

There's no misconception... both back inflate BC's and bp/w's will push you forward when at the surface with a near empty AL80. There are ways to minimize and/or make it almost not noticable but you can't eliminate it. BTW, the Force is strong with my back inflation BCD and I've had quite a few dives with a bp/w as well so I've had them on and I know. Please don't try to tell me they don't do that.

Keep in mind I never said there's a single thing wrong with a bp/w. There isn't. They have their place and perform their speciality exceedingly well.

God's gift to diving... they are not!!!

Don, you already highlighted the difference in what I stated and what you are stating in your posts with boxcar. I stated the misconception is that BP/Ws throw you on your face, not that they push you forward. I've been told several times BP/Ws "throw you on your face". I won't argue that they don't push you forward. They do. But it can be minimized enough. I don't have problems with it. I don't get pushed forward. I've learned how to manage that.

I never stated BP/Ws are any kind of gift to diving. I don't think they're for everyone. I personally wouldn't dive with anything else. But I also know others that wouldn't dive with one. To each his own. :14:

 

[TRIG]

ScubaLab reviews 10 backplate buoyancy rigs to answer the question: Are they a viable option for recreational divers?


[Some BP/W reviews

 

[kidspot]

ScubaLab reviews 10 backplate buoyancy rigs to answer the question: Are they a viable option for recreational divers?


[Some BP/W reviews

Thanks for the link. I've been wanting to read that