issues with BP/wings

[SPEEDSTER]

I have been reading A LOT of postings on this board over the last couple of weeks and have issues with some of the arguments for BP and Wings. Not that I disagree with the system altogether, it has its merits, but here are my observations:

1. I've read that you are sooo streamlined and glide through the water with the BP/wings rig without the extra shoulder padding, pockets, lumbar support, etc. OK, I don't buy that. The guys that designed the DIR way are diving with 150+ pounds of gear. With stage tanks, deco tanks, argon bottles, relatively loose dry suits (folds, wrinkles, etc), canister lights, not to mention the doubles on their back, what difference does an extra pocket, some shoulder padding, etc. make?!

2. As far as entanglement goes, well guess what, I don't buy that either. With all the gear mentioned in #1 to get snagged on fishing line, wires, metal beams, etc, again, what difference does some shoulder padding and maybe some extraneous pockets make?

I do see several advantages to the DIR rig, like the ability to adjust it to several different scenarios, the stability of the plate, and the ability to replace the strapping, but the aforementioned ones don't sit well with me. Maybe they are good reasons if you are doing recreational diving without any extra gear than the BC and single tank, which is fine, but it seems to me a 'tech bc' that can do what a harness can should be fine for tech diving if that is what the diver prefers. I am referring to oh, say a transpac II or a raider or (insert your own 'tech' bc here).

thoughts? rebuttles?

-Mike

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by SPEEDSTER
here are my observations:

1. OK, I don't buy that.
2. I don't buy that either.

thoughts? rebuttles?

Thoughts:
You haven't tried a BP/wing...
You are just guessing...
You are not a very good guesser.

Rebuttles:
Go try a BP/wing...
Come back here...
You can do the rebuttle yourself.

 

[SPEEDSTER]

UP,

I have already ordered a Halcyon set up to try.
I do like the advantages of the system.
I would like real viewpoints against mine.

-Mike

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by SPEEDSTER
UP,

I have already ordered a Halcyon set up to try.
I do like the advantages of the system.
I would like real viewpoints against mine.

-Mike

OK... but you really will be able to supply your own rebuttle before too long.

First *I don't buy that*
1. My doubles rig does indeed come close to 150# out of the water. Underwater it is considerably less. Weight is a non-issue.
2. You only dive deco and or stage tanks when you need them... but even when you do they don't add much in the way of drag when DIR rigged. I don't even notice mine while finning. They are a non-issue (especially since you won't be using them.)
3. Argon bottle correctly mounted presents no extra drag at all - zero. Another non-issue.
4. Loose, wrinkled suit? That would be my Andy's alright... Shane uses a nicely fitted CF200 and is very streamlined. He still has to have his scooter set on 3 to keep up with me on 1. Position makes more of a difference that suit wrinkles. Non-issue.
5. Canister light... no drag... zero. Non-issue.

What difference does a pocket~n~padding make? Seems as though quite a bit in my experience. I can move my doubles with a deco bottle on the side through the water easier than I could a Ranger with a single. But why not compare apples and apples since that is the bottom line?
I can kick and glide my bp/wing/single through the water a whole lot easier that any BC/single. And I've got two big pockets that really are useful in my outer thighs. And I don't need any padding.

BTW... a major source of drag with all the padding is the inherent buoyancy of the stuff that requires additional weight and often screws up trim forcing the diver to plow through the water at a large angle of attack... which requires more weight to offset lift generated... continue vicious cycle.... you will see what I mean when you try your bp/wing... you will be amazed!

Second *I don't buy that*
1. All that gear is very streamlined and arranged to mitigate snag potential.
2. Standard BC with crap dangling all over the place is a huge snag hazard.
3. So is that big loop of lp hose flapping in the flow on its great circle route to your second stage. The stream lining of the long hose is far superior.
4. The hose routing between doubles lessens the potential for line entrapment by protecting the V formed between the tanks.

But hey... don't *buy it*... just try it...

 

[omar]

Originally posted by SPEEDSTER


I do see several advantages to the DIR rig, like the ability to adjust it to several different scenarios, the stability of the plate, and the ability to replace the strapping, but the aforementioned ones don't sit well with me. Maybe they are good reasons if you are doing recreational diving without any extra gear than the BC and single tank, which is fine,

You don’t make adjustments to the rig. It stays the same for all diving conditions. You do clip off deco/stage bottles and reels. That is all that is added or subtracted. And you do not need most of the christmas tree ornaments that the typical recreational diver likes to hang on themselves.

but it seems to me a 'tech bc' that can do what a harness can should be fine for tech diving if that is what the diver prefers. I am referring to oh, say a transpac II or a raider or (insert your own 'tech' bc here).

Having a Transpac sitting in the garage along with several backplates I can tell you from experience that the TII is not as suitable for tech diving. My wife even decided that she prefers the backplate to the TII which shocked me (along with saying that she wants to do Tech 1 as well). The quick releases, the padding and the adjustment straps are just not needed if you are healthy and fit, which you should be if tech diving. For tech diving you are looking for the optimal set up. I prefer to dive rite ;-)

omar

 

[100days-a-year]

Rite on Omar & UP.In the halcyon days before the"tech diving"look became popular many companies were looking for ways to increase profits.As soon as these recreational rangers started to exhaust the coolness factor of standard rigs bare of any xtra d-rings they strarted asking for heavier duty equipment with which to death-defying dives to in excess of 100 feet.Even a manufacterer in the outback would find these BCs a way to vector extra cash into the coffers.The only drawback to the whole principle was that to add options that cost more often caused the BC to become less suitable for actual diving.As people started dieing from not doing it right it became apparent the the principle concept of the techdiver must be K.I.S.S.

 

[Iguana Don]

"Thoughts:
You haven't tried a BP/wing...
You are just guessing...
You are not a very good guesser.

Rebuttles:
Go try a BP/wing...
Come back here...
You can do the rebuttle yourself."

UP,

You crack me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




ID

 

[SPEEDSTER]

thanks for the insight,

it just didn't make sense to me. but with the explanations you all gave it does make more sense, especially the increased buoyancy of the padding and the attack angle, thanks UP. I should be getting my halcyon stuff today or tomorrow, and I can't wait to try it out. I have a feeling you're right, I'll probably be back here giving my own rebuttle.

-Mike

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by SPEEDSTER
I should be getting my halcyon stuff today or tomorrow, and I can't wait to try it out.

Mike... do you have anyone to help you set it up... adjust the harness and stuff like that?

If not and you run into difficulty get back on here and ask for help.

 

[SPEEDSTER]

I probably will be back asking a few questions, no doubt. Thanks for the offer! Any quick pointers? I figure it can't be too tough, but then again the difference is in the details, huh?

-Mike