Is this video real? 293ft on air...

[Thalassamania]

Thalassmania, don't mean to get into a pissing match with you, but you said that my original comment about the increased risk do to oxygen induced siezure when breathing at a high ppO2 was misleading, because there has never been a sinlge instance of oxygen induced seizure within the "science community". Now you say that the NOAA diver working on a project for NOAA is not in the "science"community because he is not a "working diver" (he had 5 years of saturation diving experience, with resulting femoral head necrosis). Next it will be because the wind was not blowing northeast on a Tuesday! I stand by my original comment Re: high PO2, and I also stand by my comment that this type of accident has occured in the "science community". If you think that my initial comment regarding "increased risk of exposure to high oxygen concentrations during diving" is misleading because you have no personal knowledge of it occuring in the narrow subset of divers you deem worthy of being included in the "science community", so be it.

There is no pissing match, there is the reality of the borders of a data set that has been defined for many, many years vs. the inclusion of extraneous samples that simply do not belong there. It is clear that this comes as new information to you, so please consider it rather than continuing down the pissing match trail that you are blazing.

It is not a question of whom I deem worthy, I'm not making up a definition on the fly to cherry pick data, and frankly I resent the implication. We won exemption from the OSHA commercial diving regulations based on the phenomenal safety record of a defined population that shares a common training and administrative tradition, one that is not shared by NOAA and that has never been shared by NOAA, a group with a rather poor safety record by comparison.

This definition has been in place since the early 1950s, was formalized by OSHBA rules in the early 1980s and continues to be used to this day. Subscribing to any other definition is statistically unsound.

 

[diverdoug1]

There is no pissing match, there is the reality of the borders of a data set as opposed to your inclusion of extraneous samples that simply do not belong there. If your need to cover up for your ignorance of the science diving world by turning it into one rather than admitting your clear error, that is on your head, not mine.

It is not a question of whom I deem worthy, I'm not making up a defintion on the fly to cherry pick data and frankly I resent the implication. We won exemption from the OSHA commercial diving regulations based on the phenomenal safety record of a defined population that shares a common training and administrative tradition, one that is not shared by NOAA and that has never been shared by NOAA. This definition has been in place since the early 1950s, was formalized in the late 1970s and continues to be used to this day, using any other definition is statistically unsound.

What clear error? The only errors I see here are 1. Your statement that this has never occured in the SCIENCE COMMUNITY. (you said science community, not scientific diving community, which you later ammended). 2. That my original post should be deemed as misleading because that type of accident had not occcured to your knowledege in said community.
Also, what did I say to cause you to imply I have some type of ignorance with regards to the scientific diving community. BTW, the "science community" (your words) encompasses a far greater group than the "scientific diving community".
Quit blowing smoke Dude! I said that there was an increased risk of oxygen induced seizure when diving with a high ppO2. I did not state that this was based on statistics compiled only on divers who meet the qualifications to be called a scientific diver. I made no reference to any part of the scientific comminity in my original post. It would have been impossible for me to include"extraneous examples" from a data set, if no data set was defined or implied! The facts remain that 1. You have increased risk diving at high ppO2 partialy due to oxygen induced seizure, 2. death secondary to oxygen induced seizure has occured in the scientific community.
I am sorry if you "resent" some implication that was not made.
If you are hurt because I have included a NOAA diver with many years of commercial diving in the SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY, your need to get a thicker skin. If you can't handle someone saying your wrong, you need to grow up. Go back and read the posts and quit pettifogging!

 

[Akimbo]

… But in the case of going to 200' on air, is there a particular reason to think that fat people have more to worry about than others? ...

A reliable statistical accident analysis is improbable because excess body fat is rarely the only health factor. Compromised Cardio-Pulmonary function often accompanies it. Factors like the following all impact the risk profile:

• Increased respiratory work loads due to gas density
• Increased Oxygen consumption and the corresponding CO2 production
• Virtually unstudied effect on Oxygen Toxicity tolerance — maybe better, probably not, likely different and therefore a variable that is hard to plan for.
• Overall impact of lower circulation rates in fat tissues compared to the statistical base that have influenced decompression formulas and table development
• Excessive body fat is often accompanied by hypertension and the drugs to treat it
• Overall health factors such as mussel tone as they relate to dealing with emergencies

You can’t compare the body mass index of a collage football player and someone who is an obese 60 year old couch potato and come up with sound conclusions. Unfortunately that is the kind of coarse data available to medical researchers.

 

[Herk_Man]

To put the visibility thing in perspective, imagine looking from one end of a football field to the other through clear water on a sunny day. I think it should be pretty easy to imagine that there will be plenty of light to see.

 

[DennisW]

You guys that keep putting down the Air 2. I'll bet it doesn't breath much different at 293 ft than it does at 120 or at 5 ft. I've used mine at 120 and it breathes the same there as it does at the surface. Not great, but it will get me to the surface, which is it's entire purpose when I have to put it in my mouth because someone has an OOA situation.

 

[diverdoug1]

A reliable statistical accident analysis is improbable because excess body fat is rarely the only health factor. Compromised Cardio-Pulmonary function often accompanies it. Factors like the following all impact the risk profile:

• Increased respiratory work loads due to gas density
• Increased Oxygen consumption and the corresponding CO2 production
• Virtually unstudied effect on Oxygen Toxicity tolerance — maybe better, probably not, likely different and therefore a variable that is hard to plan for.
• Overall impact of lower circulation rates in fat tissues compared to the statistical base that have influenced decompression formulas and table development
• Excessive body fat is often accompanied by hypertension and the drugs to treat it
• Overall health factors such as mussel tone as they relate to dealing with emergencies

You can’t compare the body mass index of a collage football player and someone who is an obese 60 year old couch potato and come up with sound conclusions. Unfortunately that is the kind of coarse data available to medical researchers.

The only GOOD studies that I have seen that stratify obesity as a risk factor (with respect to diving related illness) from over all BMI and physical conditioning are those involving dysbartic osteonecrosis (DON). Obese patients also have an increased proclivity for non-DON (such as alcohol induced). This is probably due to hyperlipidemia and increased circulating thromboplastin levels causing impairment of the resolution of traumatic bone marrow thrombi. There are number of retrospecticve studies that would indicate that obesity IS a risk factor for DCI, but I have not seen any that stratify BMI and lean body mass.

 

[Herk_Man]

He said stratifly. *Snort*

 

[reddiver970]

At least he had a snorkle with him... just in case!

:cool2:

that's a good one

 

[Akimbo]

The only GOOD studies that I have seen that stratify obesity as a risk factor (with respect to diving related illness) from over all BMI and physical conditioning are those involving dysbartic osteonecrosis (DON). Obese patients also have an increased proclivity for non-DON (such as alcohol induced). This is probably due to hyperlipidemia and increased circulating thromboplastin levels causing impairment of the resolution of traumatic bone marrow thrombi. There are number of retrospecticve studies that would indicate that obesity IS a risk factor for DCI, but I have not seen any that stratify BMI and lean body mass.

Excellent point. Oh yeah, and then there is smoking — tobacco and otherwise.

I doubt that anyone needs science to convince them that eating, drinking, and smoking too much will kill them even faster underwater than on their couch. I encourage every diver to understand the physics and physiology of our pastime. I just hope that nobody tries to use certificates and equipment to compensate for neglecting the most important factor in the safety equation.

 

[diverdoug1]

yeah, I don't think any part of my training to this point in my career has been as challenging as getting those last 10 pounds off! (internship was close though)