Is this for real?

[Cacia]

sorry for being so jaded.

I called the USCG and spoke to three individuals, none know the answer, nor do they seem to be able to "look it up".

The number 522-8253 is the Oahu Inspections Office and they should have the answer M-F, 8-4, I am told.

 

[cuddlefish]

The Coast Guard at HIRSA told us a few years back that it was a new regulation (at that time) to have deck hand in addition to the captain on drifts anyway.

Yes, "deck hand"....I have not heard anything about that deck hand needing to be a professional divemaster. The way I understood it is that the deck hand has to be a part of the company's random drug testing program, at least 16 years old (DM has to be at least 18), and safety trained.

At first, everybody was all upset until they realized nobody was checking.

Yes, I guess the courts could "enforce" to a degree but to be honest most people driving boats and working as dive guides do not think that way (understandably). They are trying to get through the day, do the dives , and not get boarded and ticketed.

Perhaps the captains and guides should start thinking more about safety and liability rather than just "getting through the day". People...have some responsibility, quality, and pride in what you do.

 

[LioKai]

Perhaps the captains and guides should start thinking more about safety and liability rather than just "getting through the day". People...have some responsibility, quality, and pride in what you do.

I feel your pain, and I stand behind your comment. Keep in mind that the owners (I mean the ones that write the checks) are the real downward rolling boulders in this up hill battle. And many Captains won't stand up to them because they "need" the paycheck. Some ops have started putting more than 6 divers per guide, and the Captains and DMs don't stand up and say "NO". An old coach said to me "" There is no CAN'T, there is only WON'T".

 

[fishb0y]

I feel your pain, and I stand behind your comment. Keep in mind that the owners (I mean the ones that write the checks) are the real downward rolling boulders in this up hill battle. And many Captains won't stand up to them because they "need" the paycheck. Some ops have started putting more than 6 divers per guide, and the Captains and DMs don't stand up and say "NO". An old coach said to me "" There is no CAN'T, there is only WON'T".

Emphasis mine...

Oh no... those wealthy independent business are at it again! First its the HUGE tax breaks, and now skimping on everyones safety... when will this travesty end?

Honestly LioKai & Cuddlefish, do you really think that any charter boat owners/operators are skimping on your safety just to make a couple of bucks? I'm sure that they understand that with one major incident on their boat, their business is done.

How about instead of scaring people about the big bad dive boat owner (even though many are owner/operators)... try holding divers themselves up to their responsibility for their own safety.

 

[LioKai]

Emphasis mine...
Honestly LioKai & Cuddlefish, do you really think that any charter boat owners/operators are skimping on your safety just to make a couple of bucks?

Funny you should ask... I left working at a shop because of this exact issue. And, I'm currently fighting (daily) against DM's being forced to take more than 6 divers at a time where I work now. There are a few DM/captains that refuse to work in the industry or have left to form their own companies because of issues like this.

Maybe it is because of certified divers being more inept than ever before, or because of too many divers thinking they are better than they really are. Or maybe it is because of the multiple accidents that have occurred over the last year or so. Welcome to the generation of "it's not my fault".

 

[fishb0y]

Funny you should ask... I left working at a shop because of this exact issue. And, I'm currently fighting (daily) against DM's being forced to take more than 6 divers at a time where I work now. There are a few DM/captains that refuse to work in the industry or have left to form their own companies because of issues like this.

Maybe it is because of certified divers being more inept than ever before, or because of too many divers thinking they are better than they really are. Or maybe it is because of the multiple accidents that have occurred over the last year or so. Welcome to the generation of "it's not my fault".

So who's point are you trying to prove?

 

[LioKai]

So who's point are you trying to prove?

Neither. Or, both really.
I agree with what you said about people needing to be accountable for their own actions. I'm not arguing with you. I'm saying that there is more to it than poor teaching of the basics of scuba.

I'm assuming that you are a self sufficient diver. Many are not. At one point we were all at the beginning of our diving career. According to an article I read last year, most divers don't hit dive number 10 until after one year of being certified, and most of those don't reach 20 dives ever. A few months ago I captained a night dive for 6 divers who haven't been diving since the 90's and they didn't have 20 dives since certification combined and none of them have EVER been on a night dive. Granted, this was somewhat unusual, but not completely unusual. Now put that together with a DM with 8 divers (or more), water and current like we had in January, and it becomes a problem. I haven't even begun to touch that fact that most divers on a charter boat in Hawaii are over the age of 45 and over weight.

This is all very far off the point that the rule in question has to do with a "spotter" on board. The rule has been in effect for some time, but many boats possess a letter of exemption. The big noise now has to do with the fact that those exemption letters are in danger of being revoked.

 

[Cacia]

The big noise now has to do with the fact that those exemption letters are in danger of being revoked.

yea, that sounds about right. I know some exemptions out there.

The problem is, having an extra paid person on board will raise the price of a dive if it has to be enforced. We are already more than people want to pay, in Hawaii. Tourists see palm trees and think they are in a banana republic and they aren't...we have the most regressive tax laws in the US, on top of things being so expensive...I don't have to tell you. But the notion that somebody is getting rich off of scuba diving in Hawaii is probably a big legend. The margin just isn't there.

Dissect the price of a charter...100 dollars

The insurance, fuel, boat maintenance, staff, commercial rents.. I am not sure how anybody makes it, I really don't. I think people ought to be more responsible for themselves...it's going the wrong direction.

Regulation might make diving a non-viable business someday soon.

The reason I predict some bleak times for Hawaii, is that it has become easier and easier to not need to engage commerce here due to the internet. If Hawii keeps this over regulation up, they will really do this place in economically.

 

[ScubaAndDreams]

Neither. Or, both really.
A few months ago I captained a night dive for 6 divers who haven't been diving since the 90's and they didn't have 20 dives since certification combined and none of them have EVER been on a night dive. .

Ok this is scary...you mean to tell me that they didn't even dive the site suring the day, that this was their first dive in 10ish years...and they had never been on a night dive?

Do I read that right?

 

[Cacia]

I've see that very often. People dive the Sea Tiger at night having never dived it, all the time.