Is this for real?

[rockjock3]

First, I agree that the state of some instructors is is sad. The students they turn out are not adequatly prepared to dive safely on their own.

Secondly, isn't there something on the waiver that says that Scuba can be a dangerous activity and you will not hold the boat operator or dive operation liable?

As for the CYA angle maybe they need to either need to make the waiver more bulletproof (not to protect from obvious negligence on the part of either of course).

I think there should be a DM on the boat and in the water. The one in the water should lead the dive for anybody that "wants" to follow him and those that don't can explore the site with their buddy. One on the boat to handle any possible emergencies from topside.

 

[KrisB]

I agree that the state of some instructors is is sad. The students they turn out are not adequatly prepared to dive safely on their own.

There are some instructors that are not adequately prepared to dive safely on their own, let alone their students...

 

[rockjock3]

There are some instructors that are not adequately prepared to dive safely on their own, let alone their students...

Good point.

 

[DiverBAS]

The mere mention that it is impossible to dive off a commercial dive boat without a DM is alarming to me.....I understand it is a CYA thing, but that just shows how poorly some instructors teach (I am not pointing fingers at anyone at all)...the point of being Open Water certified is that you are capable of planning and executing your own dives. If we're going the way of having to have a DM in the water everytime a customer gets in...there is definately something wrong with the education side of the industry.

Just an observation.

Yeah, some folks leave their OWS with a bare clue about diving. Others may have had the most rigorous training there is and been a top student, but if its been a while since they last dove, they could still be a train wreck in the water and benefit from a DM.

 

[SkullDeformity]

They really should push "tourist diver" classes harder for vacation divers instead of OW. If you're only diving once or twice a year, you probably need to be supervised.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when GUE gets its OW class into motion.

 

[cuddlefish]

Since there is no government regulation of the dive industry, how is it the CG's jurisdiction to be able to require a DM lead the dive? And why only in HI? In other states, the DM doesn't even get in the water.

This sounds very bogus.

The government is not directly involved in the dive industy. However, it is very involved in activities that are related to the dive industy. One example is tanks. The biggest example is the Coast Guard's involvement in how a commercial boat is run. Many of the regulations really do help make things safer for the passengers and crew. However, many of the regs are SO old and just don't apply to anything in the real world. And, of course, there is the issue of interpretation of the regs.

Either way, I have not heard of this regulation and doubt that it is true.

One thing that IS being discussed is the issue of manning on commercial dive vessels. Dive operators may be required to have an additional crew stay on the boat with the captain while divers are on the dive. This is going to be very expensive for the operators to do.

 

[Cacia]

so...I can dive with myself, right? :11doh:

see, I knew my DM would pay off someday...




...well right now, aren't you required to have a boat hand on drifts? I think you are. nobody does it, but I heard a Coastie say that at HIRSA.

Dive operators may be required to have an additional crew stay on the boat with the captain while divers are on the dive. This is going to be very expensive for the operators to do.

lol, some days you are doing good if the captain stays on the boat in certain parts.

 

[KrisB]

They really should push "tourist diver" classes harder for vacation divers instead of OW. If you're only diving once or twice a year, you probably need to be supervised.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when GUE gets its OW class into motion.

The "tourist diver" class is a great idea, IMO. First, it can be done in as short as one day (PADI's Scuba Diver). Second, it means they'll dive supervised.

The only downside is the depth restriction and the apprehension of local ops dealing with overhead environments and "Scuba Divers" -- and those two things alone are going to be enough to have divers insisting on OW certs, even if they're diving once a year.

And really, what is involved as far as skills for the SD -> OW jump? Not much in confined water.

 

[cuddlefish]

so...I can dive with myself, right? :11doh:

see, I knew my DM would pay off someday...




...well right now, aren't you required to have a boat hand on drifts? I think you are. nobody does it, but I heard a Coastie say that at HIRSA.

Dive operators may be required to have an additional crew stay on the boat with the captain while divers are on the dive. This is going to be very expensive for the operators to do.

lol, some days you are doing good if the captain stays on the boat in certain parts.

YES! You are currently required to have a crew on the boat with the captain in drifts. I know there are shops that don't do this. That makes it harder for the shops that do.....mainly because of the expense. I know for a fact that Jack's does add the extra crew on drifts...as do some of the truly professional dive ops. ONE exception is that for six pack boats or larger boats that have an amendment IN WRITING on their COI...they may run a larger boat without additional crew if they only have SIX passengers that day. It's not automatic...you have to have it in writing that you are allowed to do this. Again, this option may disappear due to the Coast Guard taking a closer look at the issue.

As for dive ops that allow the captain to leave the boat unattended during the dive (or leave just a crew on)....that actually makes me upset. Not because it automatically creates an usafe situation...but because some dive shops try so hard to follow every rule...and some just get away with anything they want. It's not professional.

 

[friscuba]

In my book OW basically is a "tourist diver" class. Can anyone really teach a non-diver everything they need to know about self sufficient diving in some academics, several pool sessions, and 4-5 dives? Real sufficiency comes with practice, many people are only going to get that practice on the occasional vacation, others get it by taking further courses, others just dive... but it all doesn't happen the moment you've got your certification, it's just a beginning.