Is this for real?

[MauiScubaSteve]

Whether or not it is a Coast Guard rule (doubtful), fact is I only know of very regular customers / friends / family / ex-employees who get to dive without the DM off commercial dive boats in Hawaii. For the vast majority of visiting boat divers, you will be diving with the DM. I truely believe this is because without a local guide most visiting divers don't see the cool stuff so operators make sure they are shown some cool stuff. For the most part, divers that have negative experiences in Hawaii are the ones that did not dive with a local guide.

Guess what I do for a living?

 

[DiverBAS]

Since there is no government regulation of the dive industry, how is it the CG's jurisdiction to be able to require a DM lead the dive? And why only in HI? In other states, the DM doesn't even get in the water.

This sounds very bogus.

 

[Wildcard]

Gonna have to call BS on this one.

 

[Lopaka]

And why only in HI? In other states, the DM doesn't even get in the water.

This sounds very bogus.

Agreed. Calif. boat DM's give a briefing and check you into and out of the water. You are on your own in the water, and under much more challenging conditions than Hawaii for the most part.

OTOH, I think it is an excellent idea for the "once a year" vacation divers to tag along with a Hawaiian DM, both to see the local critters, and because their skills are often so poor they should not be allowed to dive unsupervised. Almost being knocked unconcious by one of them thrashing around emphasized that!

 

[friscuba]

Here is the reality though. If you have a dive operation over here and you don't put a DM in the water and something goes wrong....

You will likely lose any lawsuit that comes against you. The plaintiffs attorneys are going to be aware of the Aquazone settlement and will ask for a Coast Guard opinion. They will also point out that EVERY name operator in the state runs guided tours... you will have to justify why your divers are so much better than everyone else's divers, or that your briefings are so much better that everyone elses, that you don't need in water supervision for them.

It's all about the local standard, and if you are not in line with the local standards, even unwritten ones, you are going to have a tough time addressing that in court, you are pretty much guaranteed you will have to address it.

later,

 

[kidspot]

from reading the corresponding post, even if true, I don't see how that changes anything here for a guest. Every commercial op I know of has DM led dives, I don't know any ops where a self guided tour is even an option (except for the cases where you are a very regular customer/friend/family etc)

I still hope it's not true as I'm not much for government regulation...

 

[Lopaka]

I don't know any ops where a self guided tour is even an option

Last time my wife and I dove with Jack's Diving Locker (~1.5yrs ago and prior visits) the comment was often made by the DM just after the briefing that they would prefer all stay with the DM led group, but you were allowed to go off on your own if you chose to. Majority of the time I saw someone make this choice, it was visiting Japanese. Dunno why.

 

[KrisB]

Since there is no government regulation of the dive industry, how is it the CG's jurisdiction to be able to require a DM lead the dive? And why only in HI? In other states, the DM doesn't even get in the water.

This sounds very bogus.

I understand that there's another governmental rule affecting divers though... not sure if it's just HI.

Since the incident on the Backwall where a dive group (with DM) went missing for several hours, there are new requirements for drift diving -- the captain must also have a designated "spotter" on board.

Not sure if this is Maui County or Coast Guard rules...

 

[ScubaAndDreams]

The mere mention that it is impossible to dive off a commercial dive boat without a DM is alarming to me.....I understand it is a CYA thing, but that just shows how poorly some instructors teach (I am not pointing fingers at anyone at all)...the point of being Open Water certified is that you are capable of planning and executing your own dives. If we're going the way of having to have a DM in the water everytime a customer gets in...there is definately something wrong with the education side of the industry.

Just an observation.

 

[mrjimboalaska]

DM's.......well, I've seen DM's that are people I would not really choose to dive with.
70 dive wonders.....all training......
I was on a charter last year, DM did the brief, we would dive as a group, we will meet at the bottom. DM got in and went straight to the bottom....except that the last 2 divers off the boat forgot weights....while DM and 2 other divers kneeled on the bottom.......?.......another diver came over to me and buddied up. We hoverd at 30ft for 5 minutes until the other divers descended. The DM and other 2 divers were kneeling in 90Ft. for about 7 minutes, burning gas......
Or the time we got a briefing on a boat. "At 16 minutes bottom time, WE WILL ascend up the mooring line hand over hand, no excepts,,,,well DM was pissed when about 3 others and myself acended off the mooring line...watching as 12 others banged each other, wrapped arms,
DM's are not the "Masters" they should be, I've dove with some really great ones, and seen some that should take BOW over again, and dont get me started on the
100 dives's wonder Instructors........