Is there an instructor crisis?

[MichaelMc]

The solution you advise would be outrageously expensive, calling for a massive increase in agency personnel to do that monitoring. If senior dive shop personnel would simply monitor instruction--as they should--it would be cheap and easy.

But it isn't going to happen.

Traveling student evaluators or undercover students would be outrageously expensive. The near impossibility and enormous cost of creating a video for a not-yet-to-standard student is part of the point.

A five minute video would likely take the instructor or DM a total of 8 minutes for a qualified student, which could be done during the final swim-about pool dive. Filming buddy pairs side-by-side doing the skills could be enough. The job of headquarters is to check the instructor not the student, so watching an instructor anonymized grid of nine of that instructor's most recent batch of students will work just fine. The time for that seems reasonable and could even be done on less than all their students, which might be preferable liability-wise so as to not be evaluating all the students. Having each grid dedicated to a pool certifying instructor plus dive center should mostly solve issues of who taught vs. who certified and under what dive center's guidance.

The benefit is fairly robust quality control of the training outcome. Which could help turn back the insurance crisis. And crappy diver training.

You say local leadership doing their job would be much simpler, but also that they repeatedly will not do that. Yet quality control re-calibration is central to the theory of mastery training. Do you have an alternative proposal?

Edited: to tighten the process at HQ.

The Director of Instruction agreed that teaching students while neutrally buoyant and in horizontal trim was most effective way--no doubt about it. He said, however, that it was not his place tell other instructors how to teach. All the rest taught student on the knees.

They told students that when they were surveyed by PADI after the certification, they were to answer the deep dive question as they directed; i.e., lie.
....
Once again, it is a case of local leadership screwing up the system.

 

[MichaelMc]

I don't think that's going to aid instructor retention. I'm retired from (mental) health care, where (at least in the inpatient setting) one has to deal with requirements from CMS (Medicare/Medicaid), Joint Commission (technically voluntary participation, but that's a discussion in its own right) and OIG (Office of Inspector General), plus if you're in a state facility meddling from the department you fall under. And people in health care are ever concerned about liability issues. Guess what the bureaucrat response to alleged deficiencies and liability risk (neither of which is ever permanently gone) is?

I'm not trying to aid retention of bad instructors, I'm trying to solve a crisis driving out good instructors.

 

[runsongas]

@wetb4igetinthewater would you rather it was going down like tennis/golf/scuba? the sentiment on the slopes is way more upbeat these days than the doom and gloom around these parts.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@wetb4igetinthewater would you rather it was going down like tennis/golf/scuba? the sentiment on the slopes is way more upbeat these days than the doom and gloom around these parts.

I am not wishing anything of the sort. I'm just data driven when data is available. I'm just trying to understand your claim that these passes have been a boon for the ski/snowboard industry. I see the data as being rather flat overall. So I don't get how you are making your conclusion. Maybe you have saved some money using these passes and know other people who have as well and this has encouraged you and the people you know to have more visits to resorts.

But that doesn't mean that everyone has. The NSAA and CSA (and probably other regional ski area associations) collect a lot of data. We don't have that same level of quality for data in the dive industry. Who tracks people's shore diving for example? You can get an idea from the number of fills by local dive shops (as private compressors are low), but does anyone actually collect that data?

So again, with the ski resort detailed data, I don't see any evidence that your suggestion that if the scuba industry follows the ski industry it will experience any benefit. Maybe a deeper dive into the data factoring in economic conditions, bad snow years, etc.. is needed to show how these passes resulted in an increase in participation. But no one has done that analysis, have they?

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

The difference being that the training agencies invented certification, membership, and insurance, then convinced dive operators that you had to be certified to go diving.

IMHO.....This right here is the most accurate and pertinent statement on this entire thread. !!!

 

[Cert1967]

Okay, but even with this program, the numbers today are still below than that of 2009/2010. Where is the data proving that this program actually works?

Are you looking for current ski data? Vail Resorts says,

Vail Resorts Reports Certain Ski Season Metrics for the Season-to-Date Period Ended April 16, 2023
April 21, 2023.

Ski School revenue is up 26.4%, with Vail Mtn ski school often 'sold out' for many types of lessons. The price of ski lessons - private and group - SCUBA instructors should be so lucky.

https://investors.vailresorts.com/news-releases/news-release-details/vail-resorts-reports-certain-ski-season-metrics-season-date-26

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Are you looking for current ski data? Vail Resorts says,

Vail Resorts Reports Certain Ski Season Metrics for the Season-to-Date Period Ended April 16, 2023
April 21, 2023.

Ski School revenue is up 26.4%, with Vail Mtn ski school often 'sold out' for many types of lessons. The price of ski lessons - private and group - SCUBA instructors should be so lucky.

https://investors.vailresorts.com/news-releases/news-release-details/vail-resorts-reports-certain-ski-season-metrics-season-date-26

Did you look at the links that I provided? There is your answer.

I have the perception that price of lift tickets has shot up in the recent past. But we are discussing participation. We should be so lucky to raise prices like that, I agree.

 

[Cert1967]

Did you look at the links that I provided? There is your answer.

I have the perception that price of lift tickets has shot up in the recent past. But we are discussing participation. We should be so lucky to raise prices like that, I agree.

Lift prices up in recent years?

The Vail Resorts model - but before the season- earlier you buy the less you pay

Full epic pass this year is about $950 for all access. Fifteen years ago a season pass was about $2250. Walk up is demand based, this season about $275

Private lesson this year, demand based, mostly $1350

Instructors in this thread - why do you work for so little?

 

[rjack321]

Instructors in this thread - why do you work for so little?

Duh... for free air and cause they "love introducing people to the underwater world"

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Instructors in this thread - why do you work for so little?

Initially it was to build up my program as I started as a crap instructor. I'm current inactive due to an underwater research project in Greece.

When will I go back to teaching? Good question. But I'll be charging a lot more but have only two students (one on case of my nav and limited viz/night combination as I'll only teach that during the algae bloom).

I will tell you that it is common practice to back the classes to the max with additional DMs. Everyone on their knees.

Those Instructors are not on this board.