Is there an instructor crisis?

[Shaun_Mc]

Now there's a high-integrity marketing plan: lie, plus bait-and-switch. PADI is not happy with that kind of illegal infringement of their trademarks.

My SSI instructors have been far better than my PADI instructors in the past. I realize that everyone has different experiences, but i would hardly call it a bait and switch since a C card is a C card accepted worldwide.

I am debating which agency to get my DM and instructor cert through since all of the shops in my area are mixed. I am planning to get my pro certs just because i want to.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

If you get in an accident DURING your driving lessons, that instructor is booted and their license to teach is revoked. And they are held liable along with the parent company. If you blow up the chemistry lab during class, the instructor and the university are liable yes.

The University IS liable if you blow up the chemistry lab, but they aren't liable if you later set up a chemistry lab in your garage and blow up the neighborhood. They have certified you as a BS-level chemist. Same thing applies to the engineers whose bridges collapse. They or their employer, not the entity that trained them, is liable.

And from what I've seen of med schools ( I advise a lot of students going to medical school, working closely with them in the application process and often communicating with them after), I can see where some should be sued when they either accept ethically questionable students or students who really aren't academically prepared as is easily determined based on college grades and MCAT scores. But they're not. I suspect because they can point to their training materials and show that Dr. Feelgood was taught ethics and basic anatomy and shouldn't have mistaken a kidney for a spleen or given opiates to anybody walking in the door that asked for them. The good doctor also passed exams to prove their knowledge. In essence, the doctor did something they were expressly told not to, or didn't do something they were expressly trained and tested on. It's not the med school's fault, or so they'd say.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I see. So no one here has ever seen any criticism of an instructor or dive shop offering a specialty class. Amazing. They have never heard of it being a "money grab." Amazing.

If the student/customer acquires meaningful skills (a subjective term), then I don't see anyone having an issue. I wouldn't call the shops/instructors I used as a new diver as money grubbing POSs. But I do see them having adopted of selling the next class as opposed to ensuring that students learn something in their current class. People are justified with having a problem with that. I remember when I did my PADI IDC how Barry Dunford was pushing us to sell PPB courses after open water. As I have posted elsewhere, the performance requirements from open water and PPB are not that different (for those interested, my comments can be found starting here: Peak Buoyancy Specialty Course.

But I sure would say there was never much of a return. The only course where there was was from a PADI instructor with a GUE and cave (sidemount) background. And of course fundies.

 

[Vicko]

I see. So no one here has ever seen any criticism of an instructor or dive shop offering a specialty class. Amazing. They have never heard of it being a "money grab." Amazing.

You beat me to it.
I'll hapilly admit that I have many times said that speciality dives are rip-offs and instructors (and agencies, realistically they are the problem) offering incremental training with little benefit are money grabbing.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You beat me to it.
I'll hapilly admit that I have many times said that speciality dives are rip-offs and instructors (and agencies, realistically they are the problem) offering incremental training with little benefit are money grabbing.

I would give them the benefit of the doubt in that they are brainwashed into mediocrity.

When it comes to discussions of providing value, I often see a reactions of "La! La! La! I'm not listening!"

 

[Seaweed Doc]

On the original question, and with some loose data rather than philosophical discussion, I'd say number of instructors in my area has ebbed and flowed. For awhile, my LDS couldn't find enough instructors. (Some wags might say that's why they let me teach for them). They seem appropriately staffed up now, though.

One local shop (thankfully) went out of business after one too many student deaths and resultant lawsuits. Some of their instructors went to other shops and "stuck." Others were "tried out" by other shops and not invited back.
Regardless, this created a bit of flux as there was one less shop in the area which increased demand elsewhere and not all the former shop's instructors still teach. But one less shop in my part of the world can also mean fewer students starting the certification process because there's one less sign reminding folks they might like learn to dive or it's now a 5 mile drive to a dive shop instead of a 1 mile drive. (In this case, the shop that closed is an easy bike ride from 2 universities, where any other shop requires a car or bus ride at best.)

 

[BoltSnap]

Perhaps someone should explain to the shops, that if they paid instructors more, they shop would get more out of the instructors.

What more are they going to get out of their instructors? Let's talk apples and oranges.

"we offer platinum classes, with bonus hands-on time, extra skills, etc."

I do that and my students get a card that actually says "Platinum Scuba Diver" from NAUI. Students get 25 hours in confined water, eLearning and classroom time and 8 - 10 dives in openwater. I charge substantially more than the competition BUT if you calculate the hourly rate for my course vs. the other certified instructors who charge 1/3 to 1/2 of what I charge, my course is a lot less expensive per hour. There are more non-certified people acting as instructors who charge even less.

I don't teach a lot of students per year, perhaps 20 students at the entry level, but the others are like factories. The greater majority of potential students only want to know the price and nothing else. I don't try to compete on price since I don't care if students sign up or not, I don't care if I taught a course or not. If I don't do it right and I charge what I believe is fair, I am not teaching it.

 

[boulderjohn]

You beat me to it.
I'll hapilly admit that I have many times said that speciality dives are rip-offs and instructors (and agencies, realistically they are the problem) offering incremental training with little benefit are money grabbing.

Who judges the benefit of a course? Isn't it the consumer who purchases the product? If any business anywhere offers a product or service to customers, and customers purchase that product, then the customer must think the product is worth it.

Isn't that how pretty much any business works?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Who judges the benefit of a course? Isn't it the consumer who purchases the product? If any business anywhere offers a product or service to customers, and customers purchase that product, then the customer must think the product is worth it.

Isn't that how pretty much any business works?

There is the typical consumer, then there is people who know better. Back when I started out, I had no idea how pervasive mediocrity was. I figured for a few dives maybe learning a thing or two was a good class. Now that I know better, I felt I was ripped off. I don't accuse the shops of intentionally ripping me off. I can't say whether they knew better or not. But looking back, I paid for a bad product/service. I think people who keep diving and eventually find quality training come to a similar conclusion. This is largely what we are now discussing in this subthread.

To use an analogy of restaurant reviews, you are going to get a different rating from people who live off McDonald's than the top chefs from Paris.

 

[girlwithbigtanks]

I make more working a shift in the dive shop working 9-6, than i do teaching any class where i have to use and abuse my own gear and truck, plus gas. And my day is from 6 am to 6 pm (if im lucky) plus gear washing. For what? The prestige of being a Master Scuba Diver trainer who’s done a lot of personal con ed gets paid less than what i do filling tanks and yacking to the odd person who comes in, who i have low likelihood of acidentally killing? Ya no. It took me awhile to fold. Too long.

My previous lds paid us enough to come out a bit ahead and provided company vehicles.

People seeking group dive instruction are cheap AF, as I’ve answered many a call saying we do not teach in a wetsuit because its dumb, cold and miserable here, even if you bring your own. Find a different shop. Newbs used to at least buy a mask. Not anymore. Mmmm enjoy rental spit.

$2k for insurance was the final insult. I’m not doing group insurance and be named on a group policy with the occasional ooopsie when someone dies.

Dive spending hasn’t stopped, it just means it’s not costing me to teach your cheap a**.