Peak Buoyancy Specialty Course

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Some specialties are designed to let your learn more about the ocean, or to let you be helpful to the ocean. Being a better diver is just one possible goal of a specialty; there are others.
Having a PhD in marine biology doesn't make one a better diver.

MSD, advanced open water ratings should be acquired through skills based courses. This applies to all agencies. Not going to change of course. Master/advanced should be some indication that divers can handle more challenging environments. Note the use of the word "should."

Acquiring knowledge for the environment is great but best reserved for full courses with qualified instructors.

I will never be qualified to teach fish ID.
 
As someone with less experience, I see these classes as just a canned way of exposing me to different types of dives under the observation of someone who knows more than I do and will hopefully keep me from doing something stupid. I don't expect to be an expert at anything after these specialty classes. But I do expect to have a better idea of whether those are the kinds of dives that interest me, and have a minimum amount of knowledge and skill to do more of those dives safely. I guess what I am saying is, as a student, I expect to get a baseline amount of knowledge and skill to further pursue a type of diving and develop expertise without killing myself.
 
Some guys here are giving James from Divers Ready a hard time but one of his videos was on useless certs and I think he was 100% correct on PPB being useless. Instead of getting the very just get an instructor to work with you on that. Why pay extra for a card?
Yep, I suspect the way he teaches it, it is useless.
 
MSD, advanced open water ratings should be acquired through skills based courses.
Opinion, assumes improving diving skill is the only purpose of continuing education.
Note the use of the word "should."
Exactly, your opinion.
Acquiring knowledge for the environment is great but best reserved for full courses with qualified instructors.
Even the adventure dive for "knowledge of the environment" is quite fascinating to many. It doesn't always take a full course to open eyes....
 
Opinion, assumes improving diving skill is the only purpose of continuing education.

Exactly, your opinion.

Even the adventure dive for "knowledge of the environment" is quite fascinating to many. It doesn't always take a full course to open eyes....
I think you fail to understand my opinion. Con ed is not only for improving dive skills. Nowhere did I say that.

Just diving is enough to open one's eyes as much as an adventure dive. Give me a break.

However, non-skills related courses don't make a diver "advanced" or a "master." That's just fact. That's why I have the opinion that non-skills related courses don't belong in the AOW or MSD rating.
 
Yep, I suspect the way he teaches it, it is useless.
can you explain to me what performance requirements for PPB exist that are not already in open water?
 
LOL. Explain to you? No. To someone who doesn't argue every damn thing, maybe.
Look it up, dude.
I have. There are none. That's why PPB is worthless.
 
I have. There are none. That's why PPB is worthless.
LOL.
There are many performance requirements in the OW course. In confined water, there are 67 skills mandated. In open water, there are 65. PPB has 19 skills mandated. Effectively NONE of the 19 are in the 132 from OW. The closest is hovering, which is 30s in the pool for OW, but 60s (with only 3 ft vertical excursion allowed) in PPB. Some things that are pretty much done for you in OW (like how much weight) you learn how and then do yourself in PPB. "Efficient fin kicks" from PPB are never mentioned in OW. Etc.

I suspect you feel that all the PPB skills "should" be in the OW class. But, they are not.
 
LOL.
There are many performance requirements in the OW course. In confined water, there are 67 skills mandated. In open water, there are 65. PPB has 19 skills mandated. Effectively NONE of the 19 are in the 132 from OW. The closest is hovering, which is 30s in the pool for OW, but 60s (with only 3 ft vertical excursion allowed) in PPB. Some things that are pretty much done for you in OW (like how much weight) you learn how and then do yourself in PPB. "Efficient fin kicks" from PPB are never mentioned in OW. Etc.

I suspect you feel that all the PPB skills "should" be in the OW class. But, they are not.
So a lot of this is going to come down to philosophy and how one interprets standards. Let's not forget PADI's defintion of mastery: comfortable, fluid, and repeatable. While this can be interpreted as "student didn't drown while performing skill", let's not stoop that low.

Now when I first became an instructor, I was an on-the-knees one, overweighting by 5 lbs (our CD trained us to weight students in their dry suits without their scuba kit and then treat the scuba kit as neutral - it was ~5 lbs negative, not horrible, but not good either). As a sh!tty instructor, I would interpret many of the standards in the same way you do. Now as I improved in my teaching and eventually moved to completely neutrally buoyant and trimmed, I stopped interpreting standards in a lowest common denominator method (i.e., sh!tty) but interpreted in a way that I felt was consistent with the spirt of the standards.

Rather than make up information (as you count bullet points, not actual skills), let's actually quote standards. First, let me quoate the standards from the PADI PPB class. I will then repeat, but interject OW requirements and comments (and a few rhetorical questions).

PPB: Dive One:
• Rig a weight system with the following considerations in mind:
1. Estimate the amount of weight to begin a dive using PADI’s “Basic Weighting Guidelines” or the manufacturer recommendations (if using a rebreather).
2. Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water.
• Use visualization techniques prior to the dive to help you relax, establish a comfortable breathing pattern and move gracefully through the water.
• Conduct a buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.
• Make a controlled, slow descent to the bottom and, if needed, adjust for neutral buoyancy using the BCD.
• Adjust for neutral buoyancy at a predetermined depth.
• Hover for 60 seconds without rising or sinking more than 1 metre/3 feet by making minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba), or using very minor hand/fin sculling only (rebreathers).
• Make minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba).
• Swim horizontally, while neutrally buoyant without touching the bottom or breaking the surface of the water with equipment or body.
• Demonstrate efficient fin kicks, using long, slow strokes and gliding.
• Adjust weights (trim) and practice hovering in different positions – vertical, horizontal, feet slightly elevated and head slightly elevated.
• Conduct a postdive buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.

Dive Two
• Rig a weight system with the following considerations in mind:
1. Estimate the amount of weight to begin a dive using PADI’s “Basic Weighting Guidelines” or the manufacturer recommendations (if
using a rebreather), or based on experience from previous dives.
2. Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water.
• Use visualization techniques to help you relax, establish a comfortable breathing pattern and move gracefully through the water.
• Conduct a pre- and post-dive buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface
of the water with the BCD deflated.
• Make a controlled, slow descent to the bottom and if needed, adjust for neutral buoyancy using the BCD.
• Demonstrate efficient fin kicks, using long, slow strokes and gliding after each kick.
• Hover for 90 seconds without rising or sinking more than 1 metre/3 feet by making minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba), or using very minor hand/fin sculling only (rebreathers).
• Flood and clear your mask while holding a specific hover depth and compensating for sudden buoyancy changes (rebreather divers
only).
• Maneuver as close to a nonliving portion of the bottom (rock, sand, etc.) without touching it and then back away using neutral buoyancy with hand or fin sculling.

So let's start out with the first three bullet for both dives and bullet point 11 of the first dive:
• Rig a weight system with the following considerations in mind:
1. Estimate the amount of weight to begin a dive using PADI’s “Basic Weighting Guidelines” or the manufacturer recommendations (if using a rebreather).
2. Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water.
• Use visualization techniques prior to the dive to help you relax, establish a comfortable breathing pattern and move gracefully through the water.
• Conduct a buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.
• Conduct a postdive buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.

In the open water course, students are to:
(CW2) At the surface:
5. Adjust for proper weighting — float at eye level at the surface with no or minimal air in the BCD and while holding a normal breath.
(CW3) At the surface in water too deep in which to stand:
2. With a buddy, perform a weight check and adjust for proper weighting.
(CW3) Underwater:
6. While neutrally buoyant, swim slowly in a horizontal position to determine trim. Adjust trim, as feasible, for a normal swimming position.
[Note: this is actually incorrect as finning can mask poor trim. Diver has to be absolutely still and see how they tilt]

(CW4)
At the surface in water too deep in which to stand:
1. With a buddy, perform a weight check and adjust for proper weighting and trim.
(CW5) Underwater:
4. Complete a simulated dive – Minidive – including:
• With a buddy, practice previously learned skills with emphasis on neutral buoyancy, hovering and swimming.
(OW1) At the surface:
5. Check and adjust weighting.
(OW2) At the surface:
4. Adjust weighting and trim, as necessary.

So what's the difference here really? The visualization techniques? Is that a skill? You don't do that anyway?

If you interpret standards by the lowest commond denominator, well, that's just you. Conclusion: performance standards are essentially the same.

Bullet points 4 for PPB dives 1 & 2, bullet point 4 for dives 1:
• Make a controlled, slow descent to the bottom and, if needed, adjust for neutral buoyancy using the BCD.
• Adjust for neutral buoyancy at a predetermined depth.

In the open water course, students are to:
(CW1) Underwater:
9. Descend at a controlled rate into water too deep in which to stand, equalizing the ears and mask.
(CW2)

Underwater:
10. Use low-pressure BCD infl ation to become neutrally buoyant. Gently rise and fall in a controlled manner, during inhalation and exhalation.
(CW4)
Underwater:
4. With a buddy, descend in water too deep in which to stand using the five-point method and use buoyancy control to stop the descent without contacting the bottom.
(CW5) Underwater:
4. Complete a simulated dive – Minidive – including:
• With a buddy, practice previously learned skills with emphasis on neutral buoyancy, hovering and swimming.
(OW2) Underwater:
8. Become neutrally buoyant by adjusting air in the BCD (or dry suit) with the low pressure inflator.
(OW3) Underwater:
6. Descend with a visual reference for control to no greater than 18 metres/60 feet. Use the fi ve-point method.
7. Become neutrally buoyant and hover by inflating the BCD orally.
(OW4) Underwater:
6. Descend with no visual reference to no greater than 18 metres/60 feet. Use the fi ve-point method.

I think that skill in PPB is fairly well covered in OW. Different language, but hey, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
 

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