Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle

[Storker]

You must not dive with your wife.

She doesn't dive. So, no worries.

EDIT: But I really prefer getting back to her when I'm done diving; we're kinda attached to each other. And if I were stupid enough to go and get myself killed by being stupid while diving, she'd really kill me.

 

[Gareth J]

Sure
I dive in a very remote region

On 40% of the dive we encounter strong washing machine currents, down currents are present on 10 - 15% of the dives. Visibility can range from 50m to 1.5m

We all carry ponies - more correctly stages. Yes they're there for redundancy, they're also there for additional contingency. On a 1 hr normal dive using a single 15L (HP125) I plan to be on the surface with 90 bar (or 50cf) as do others. The stages are there as an added precaution.

We are a group of friends, we have strict "rule" You stay with your buddy, because the conditions might need both of you working together.

If you lose your buddy you look for the prequest 1 min if it's' safe to do so and immediately ascend under your dsmb IF the pick up boat sees one dsmb early it's looking for the other. If the second diver's dsmb isn't' seen or their not on the surface within a reasonable time, a recall goes out. And then we'd be summoning the Coastguard -

It would be unthinkable for anyone on lost buddy to continue their dive as a solo. If one did that would be the end of their diveign that weekend and would never be invited again.

When new people join us, the rules are explained. Everyone adheres to them and everyone has a good time.


I'm not against ponies whatsoever. I'm against them being used as a substitute for people failing to be good buddies etc. I'm even more against the mentality from a minority that if they lose their buddy they'll continue diving because they have a pony and it's okay to continue the dive as it was their buddies fault anyway.

Nice post.

 

[tursiops]

Be aware, for many training agencies, buddy breathing is no longer taught.

Is it still taught (at the basic OW level) in ANY agency?

 

[NAUI Wowie]

If all you need is more gas for contingency, you might as well take a larger tank and leave the pony at home. The point of the pony is that it is an independent source of gas. When does that make a difference?

For example a cold water backmount diver who isn't able to shut his valves due to a rotator cuff injury. Or maybe he's able to but only slowly in a training situation, and he doesn't feel like he wants to rely on that or his buddy in a real stressful situation. As said above, it's also a personal subjective matter of what kind of redundant gas you feel safe with or not.

Many agencies recommend dual tank valves and two first stages in cold water, although most sport divers are unable to close their own mono tank h-valve without help of their buddy. It's a permanent discussion point in German/Austrian dive forums: why do the clubs recommend h-valve mono tanks while so many members cannot close their own mono tank valves. Should we rather follow BSAC and recommend pony tanks instead of h-valve mono for cold water? Note that all these agencies discourage solo diving. Solo divers usually prefer a truely independent redundant source of gas, and many dive with pony tanks, independent doubles, or sidemount.

I dove California in 100cfs now 120cf. I will NEVER be able to get a larger or equal size tank in philippines or mexico where i dive every year. Aint happening. My only option would be to sling an extra AL80 and use it as..... an extra large pony. Or I could do the intelligent thing and keep my 19cf pony slung in case of catastrophe and shorten my dive to be within limits of whatever size back tank I have. Your reason of just get a larger tank dont use a pony doesnt do squat if there is an equipment failure either. carrying more air doesnt make you safer it just lets you dive longer. carrying a pony is never for more air for longer dives

 

[Gareth J]

Is it still taught (at the basic OW level) in ANY agency?

I don't know. I thought if I posted that it was no longer taught, there would be a deluge of posts saying X agency does!

 

[caruso]

If you enjoy putting yourself in situations where your only escape is with a pony, go for it.

Yeah just not on YOUR boat.

 

[caruso]

For me, life is infinitely more valuable than getting that particular dive in. I guess we have a different outlook. Remind me to send flowers to your family.

Well sure, if I knew there was significant risk that an impending dive would take my life I'd probably reconsider splashing. That much being said, if I don't make it back to the boat, I'd prefer you plant a tree for me.

 

[tursiops]

I don't know. I thought if I posted that it was no longer taught, there would be a deluge of posts saying X agency does!

I just checked the WRSTC standards. I'm stunned to see this in the definitions:
out-of-air emergency alternatives.
Procedures allowing a diver to ascend to the surface in the event of an out-of-air situation.

dependent procedures include: alternate air source; buddy breathing; redundant air supply (provided by buddy). independent procedures include: emergency ascent; redundant air supply.
​

And then in the Minimum Course Content, under Pool/Confined Water Training:
(18) Out-of-air emergency alternatives, including at least one dependent procedure and one independent procedure

 

[NAUI Wowie]

My "Issue" is not about carrying ponies. My issue is that often those carrying them get complacent.

Carrying a pony doesn't mean you can pay less attention to:

You gas contents
Your equipment serviceability and maintenance
Your buddy
Diving within your limits and experience

Too often in my experience some people just let their standards slip knowing that they have this redundant gas supply at hand.

A pony is just another line of defence - and extra level of safety but it doesn't replace any of the fundamental skills and procedures taught at OW level.

It would also help like any other basic skill, people regularly practiced. When the SHTF you want your reactions to be fluid and well practiced.

I'm not trying to preach nor are my comments aimed at anyone in particular. But they are based on witnessed events and actions of others.

And yes, when I first started to carry a pony, I let my skills slip too fortunately without any negative incidents. So this is based upon my own experience in order that others may learn.

Why are you assuming people carrying ponys are more complacent and let their standards slip? You carry a pony is that you? I have a pony now and thats not me. Were 0 for 2 now on your scenario. I rarely see people with ponys but they are normally grizzled older dudes that look like theyve been diving 30 to 45 years. They dont strike me as complacent or lax. Ive yet to see a young person or a millenial carrying one. Not that age has anything to do with it mind you. I am of the mindset that people buy Ponys because they ARE more careful. They ARE watching their air often, and they care about buddys and realize many insta buddys are not trustworthy and there are a large percentage of single tank newer divers that once they get totally comfortable diving do let their standards slip and become more lax. And those dont think there is any risk and no need for a pony.

I think pony people are paranoid people and those types are the ones id rather dive with.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Can we inject a poll to see how many minds were changed. At 38 pages there must be some.
I can't stop looking at this thread until I know. Help...

Ive been wanting a pony for a while with several liveaboard and boat dives with people that really dont care if you live or die lol. Serious. A few days ago, about a week after this thread started, I ordered a 19cf pony and a sling to mount it in front on harness. Already have an extra reg. Good to go. The biggest incentive for me to buy it? The people arguing against it. Because ive dove with people that WONT change how they dive and remind me of some of the naysayers in this thread, ive been with loners swimming at high speed to gopro everything or just surfacing without telling anyone because they are tired of diving. Im new and its happened alot. I cant believe old timers here that regularly do liveaboards and meetup boat dives dont have that happen. Ive been left in zero viz in monterery at depth. Because I think they got creeped out after ten minutes and just decided to go up.....