Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle

[NAUI Wowie]

PfcAj you have the good fortune of being able to dive with other well qualified divers. Not everyone does

I've been buddied up on boats with people who are either a) clueless, b) don't give **** all about staying together, and c) both. This is common for people who aren't part of a long-term dive team or married to another diver or whatever.

I would not want to try a CESA at the end of a dive to NDLs at 100 feet or more. Then again I'd bring doubles on such a dive if I could. I've been on dives like that where doubles weren't an option, though.

BINGO. Lots of divers dont care. Be prepared for a non buddy scenario. Its common here in CA

 

[markmud]

BINGO. Lots of divers dont care. Be prepared for a non buddy scenario. Its common here in CA

Hi ScubadriverDale,

You summed-up my experience and early diving development in one small paragraph. I will never totally rely on anyone u/w ever again.

markm

 

[PfcAJ]

youve never done a liveaboard or joined on a two tank boat dive before thats obvious. Everything about your post is completely FALSE. Most divers you meet up with on boats , well at least a good majority, are all about themself. They do not and will not buddy dive. Oh they will say so on the surface but not once underwater. Ive only got under two years limited diving and ive seen REAL idiots diving many many times.

All you need is an equipment malfunction at 80 feet deep. CESA at dive end? HA!!!!! instant trip to hyperbaric chamber if you live

Yup, a crutch for poor buddymanship skills. If everyone is always leaving you...maybe you're the one leaving them?

You're not going to a chamber if you CESA. The whole idea of OW diving is to be able to make a direct ascent to the surface. You're also not "gunna die", so please disembark the SS Melodrama.

 

[doctormike]

You're not going to a chamber if you CESA. The whole idea of OW diving is to be able to make a direct ascent to the surface. You're also not "gunna die", so please disembark the SS Melodrama.

Maybe "your gonna die" is melodramatic, but to imply that a CESA with significant N2 loading isn't a DCS risk is simply not true. I'm sure that you know this, but for new divers, N2 loading happens when you breathe compressed air underwater, whether recreational or technical diving. Making a direct ascent to the surface at a safe rate is NOT the same thing as a CESA.

You might get bent, you might not, depending on a lot of factors including your profile up to that point, your mix, and your personal risk factors.

But the fact remains that a CESA is a TERRIBLE option, and should never be a part of your contingency plan for anything other than extremely shallow dives. It's important to know how to do it as a last resort, but if we are discussing how to deal with buddy separation, catastrophic gas loss, etc... it shouldn't be part of the plan.

 

[PfcAJ]

Maybe "your gonna die" is melodramatic, but to imply that a CESA with significant N2 loading isn't a DCS risk is simply not true. I'm sure that you know this, but for new divers, N2 loading happens when you breathe compressed air underwater, whether recreational or technical diving. Making a direct ascent to the surface at a safe rate is NOT the same thing as a CESA.

You might get bent, you might not, depending on a lot of factors including your profile up to that point, your mix, and your personal risk factors.

But the fact remains that a CESA is a TERRIBLE option, and should never be a part of your contingency plan for anything other than extremely shallow dives. It's important to know how to do it as a last resort, but if we are discussing how to deal with buddy separation, catastrophic gas loss, etc... it shouldn't be part of the plan.

There's always a DCS risk. Its also very very low. Consider that a 60fpm was di rigueur up until recently, and still DCS rates were incredibly low. 60fpm is TWICE the current recommended ascent rate, something many divers have a tough time keeping up with as-is.

Ending up with a CESA takes 2 critical failures. You've lost your buddy, and in the 1 or 2 minutes you've spent looking for your buddy, you suffer a catastrophic gas loss. Not a leak... a full on "I cannot breath anymore" type of failure.

Might as well stay home and hide under the bed....

 

[Joneill]

There's always a DCS risk. Its also very very low. Consider that a 60fpm was di rigueur up until recently, and still DCS rates were incredibly low. 60fpm is TWICE the current recommended ascent rate, something many divers have a tough time keeping up with as-is.

Ending up with a CESA takes 2 critical failures. You've lost your buddy, and in the 1 or 2 minutes you've spent looking for your buddy, you suffer a catastrophic gas loss. Not a leak... a full on "I cannot breath anymore" type of failure.

Might as well stay home and hide under the bed....

And until you can say that that situation you just described is impossible, I'm not sure why you have such an issue with divers that choose to carry a pony bottle (as they do it for exactly those catastrophic possibilities). I guess you also never buy insurance for anything either as what is the likelihood of ever needing it?

We get it - you don't use one. However, others do for reasons that are valid for them. Geez - give it a rest already!

 

[grf88]

There's always a DCS risk. Its also very very low. Consider that a 60fpm was di rigueur up until recently, and still DCS rates were incredibly low. 60fpm is TWICE the current recommended ascent rate, something many divers have a tough time keeping up with as-is.

Ending up with a CESA takes 2 critical failures. You've lost your buddy, and in the 1 or 2 minutes you've spent looking for your buddy, you suffer a catastrophic gas loss. Not a leak... a full on "I cannot breath anymore" type of failure.

Might as well stay home and hide under the bed....

Interesting:
Promoting ponys bad
Promoting CESA good
Which do you think will get you hurt.

 

[doctormike]

Ending up with a CESA takes 2 critical failures. You've lost your buddy, and in the 1 or 2 minutes you've spent looking for your buddy, you suffer a catastrophic gas loss. Not a leak... a full on "I cannot breath anymore" type of failure.

I don't understand. Are you saying that CESA is never necessary, or that it is but that it doesn't incur significant additional DCS risk when compared to a 30 or 60 FPM ascent while N2 loaded?

 

[PfcAJ]

And until you can say that that situation you just described is impossible, I'm not sure why you have such an issue with divers that choose to carry a pony bottle (as they do it for exactly those catastrophic possibilities). I guess you also never buy insurance for anything either as what is the likelihood of ever needing it?

We get it - you don't use one. However, others do for reasons that are valid for them. Geez - give it a rest already!

Because almost universally (as shown in this thread) its a crutch for poor fundamental skills.

Get good.

 

[PfcAJ]

I don't understand. Are you saying that CESA is never necessary, or that it is but that it doesn't incur significant additional DCS risk when compared to a 30 or 60 FPM ascent while N2 loaded?

I'm saying its fantastically unlikely if you take the time to develop good buddymanship skills and take care of your stuff.

I'm not convinced a 60fpm CESA has any added risk over any other kind of 60fpm ascent.