Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle

[saxman242]

The boat I was on told us to dive to 50 bar then ascend and do a safety stop.

I'd hope that your pre-dive planning consists of more than listening to what the boat tells you to do for gas.

 

[CWK]

I'd hope that your pre-dive planning consists of more than listening to what the boat tells you to do for gas.

I carry a pony, so my gas planning is always more than just what the boat tells me.

 

[caruso]

Since you have difficulty with reading what I said, I'll repeat it.
A situation like that could now be avoided by having and monitoring an spg.
Note that I said now, not back then.

You're the one with the comprehension difficulty. Maybe you aren't even remembering the incident with the diver with the pony bottle correctly and your silly rule isn't even based on a true story.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Its not a safety device.

Consider the conditions that would require the use of a pony bottle. You've a) had a for serious equipment failure, b) lost your buddy and c) are unable to perform a CESA. All three of those things have to happen at the SAME TIME.

Equipment failures are rare, but do happen. Losing your buddy isn't acceptable. Search for a minute then up you go. If you can't do a CESA, you're not rec diving and need proper redundancy.

So what's the pony bottle for, exactly? So you can get away with not sticking with your buddy? So you can neglect your equipment? So you can bump up against the "limits"?

Which one of those things is acceptable? In my view...none of them. The "safety device" is just a pass to allow you to do unsafe and unacceptable things. No thx.

youve never done a liveaboard or joined on a two tank boat dive before thats obvious. Everything about your post is completely FALSE. Most divers you meet up with on boats , well at least a good majority, are all about themself. They do not and will not buddy dive. Oh they will say so on the surface but not once underwater. Ive only got under two years limited diving and ive seen REAL idiots diving many many times.

All you need is an equipment malfunction at 80 feet deep. CESA at dive end? HA!!!!! instant trip to hyperbaric chamber if you live

 

[NAUI Wowie]

You say "safety device"
I see "crutch for poor gas planning and/or poor buddy skills"

Think your gas is going to run out at any second? Good I like you paranoid! Check your gauge more often. Dive within an arms reach or a little more from me (so you can get to my long hose) like the vis typically requires anyway. Use a decent light so you can signal you have a problem. Leave your camera on the surface until you have the bandwidth to handle it and not lose your buddy in the process. Don't kick up the bottom so we can't see each other.

If the dive has a hard or soft overhead then bring a proper redundant gas supply in the form of doubles.

lol, you do realize that the people with the pony bottle are the ones with the good gas planning and are great at buddy skills right? I just got a pony because many on liveaboards and 2 tank boat dives are the ones you talk about, but they DONT use pony bottles. Its the people that are unaware and dont care that DONT use ponys. If you use a pony ...maxbottoms friend the exception....if you use a pony its because you ARE extra careful and have been burned many times by losers that dont believe in buddy principles.

And dont try the ol...well find a good buddy... yea right.... everyones life schedules do not mesh when it comes to diving. I guess my dive partner should also follow me on my vacations to the philippines and mexico too. If you can find two people that can always dive together ill show you two people that are single and between jobs. Gimme a break

 

[NAUI Wowie]

I agree with you as to terrible options. But the fact remains, if the alternative is drowning, all other options are worth considering. As an old fossil I'm required to keep using my fossil BC with a CO2 emergency inflator on it. I plan to never use that ripcord because I'm not quite sure just how uncontrolled that ascent might be. But, as a courtesy to any SAR teams out looking for my body, I think I'd pull it so they could find me and go home in time for dinner.
Returning to the original question...I still believe that the massive push for pony bottles has got nothing to do with safety. The J valve was once embraced as being one stop short of a messiah, and it still does a good job at a minimal price without continual ongoing annual upkeep fees. The pony bottle? Yes, for deep and tech divers and some others, certainly is logical. But for the industry as a whole...your LDS gets to SELL a new tank, a new holder, a complete second regulator set, and most important of all, they get to do another annual VIP and quint-annual hydro "forever" and make money every year as if they'd sold a subscription plan. For the average non-decompression open-water diver, all the pony bottle accomplishes is giving their LDS a steady revenue stream.
Of course the problem today is that even if a diver says "Hey, even NOAA and the USN say a J is a good redundant air supply" (as the USN manual does say) the industry has done such a good job of FUD that there's only one source left, and they're selling so little volume that the price of a pony is actually less. Considering that a J used to be nominally more than a K valve even in the 80's...Wow. Great FUD job, from the dive industry.
Or maybe...it is one of those macho things. You know, Joe Diver sees Rambo Wears a Pony! And immediately needs to wear one too?

Theres so much wrong with this I dont know where to start.

A pony bottle is not for safety. WHAT?

There is a massive push for pony bottles. Huh? I never see them on dive boats.

Its a cash grab by LDSs. I have 3 LDSs and none have recommended a pony and employees at one adamantly tell me that its not needed dive your plan and plan your dive. but when your buddy disappears in zero viz ....its happened .....and if there is a malfunction?

Rambo wears a pony so we want to. Uh....what??? I thought all the detractors of ponys think of them as wimpy. and divers with them worry about how others will see them if they use their pony. Kind of the opposite of your thoughts.

If you do alot of liveaboards or meetup at a boat dive to dive with instabuddies you will find many will never stick near you and some will flat out decide to surface without telling you. With no malfunctions just got tired of diving. happens ALL THE TIME.

be prepared for that or be prepared to be left alone

 

[Storker]

Most divers you meet up with on boats , well at least a good majority, are all about themself. They do not and will not buddy dive.

That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there, IJS.

Your statement is of course based on extensive experience with a large number of divers all around the world?

 

[NAUI Wowie]

The pony side seem to be claiming that you need redundancy and so a pony is useful. I agree that you need redundancy (in some circumstances) but I claim that a pony is not very good as redundancy. It also brings risk of its own.

There are depths where a buddy is enough, and a direct ascent as a last ditch plan (but that is two failures, why were you still down without a buddy?). Then there are depths when a 3l pony is not enough, so there are twinsets.

How big is the range between the two?

So, pony users, at what depth do you stop using a pony and move to a twinset (or two sidemounted etc).

19cf pony is what I ordered, what other users here use also. Its more than enough under most circumstances in tropical waters. I plan on buying an AL40 for cold local Monterey diving if I start doing a lot of deep dives. Not something im thinking about but if I did id bump it up to 40.

alternate air is better than most random divers showing up on dive boats.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there, IJS.

Your statement is of course based on extensive experience with a large number of divers all around the world?

you changed my sentence. You guys do that quite often here ive seen. please post my entire sentence so as not to make a insinuating remark. Do you dive in california? do you do meet up boat dives where you are paired with whoever? do you do liveaboards where every dive in the day you can end up with different divers? Ive done all that and been left in zero viz at 60 feet by a diving pair. ive been on liveaboards where people rocket about like aquaman...ive said that statement before and ive had to chase around after divers using great amounts of energy finning like fiends.

its all ive seen for the most part. careful, close , good buddy divers have so far in my experience been an oddity. Ive also dove in the philippines and mexico and had much better experiences. So for me yea , california has some really bad divers. Not all and not divers that read scubaboard as the people that come here learn much more. But diving in CA is every diver for himself.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

My morbid obsession with diving accidents continues; I just stumbled across another story of an experienced diver breathing from his pony bottle instead of his primary: Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving Web Site
Luckily he escaped with just a bruised ego.

if you bungie the second stage of the pony to the pony you wont have that problem. Pull on it and its free Viola. The pony should not in my opinion be an octopus i.e. where it would normally be or freely hanging to mistake it for a primary breathing sources.