Is the surface the most dangerous part of the dive?

[L13]

No - if you are a competent/responsible diver, the surface parts of the dive are absolutely not the most dangerous parts.... "competent/responsible" being the key words.

The surface is dangerous because it is the part of the dive with the most irresponsible and incompetent activity by an order of magnitude.

 

[AdivingBel]

Meh…more internet pedanticism. The video was just making a point about things you can do (and control) at the surface in order to be safer. Nothing wrong with reducing the amount of blood on the boat. Obviously if you have a major malfunction at 80 ft it’s more likely to be catastrophic. Geez…it’s not rocket science.

 

[Joneill]

You could say the same thing for almost every other part of a dive. If you do everything competently and responsibly 100% percent of the time, none of it is dangerous.

Very few if any incidents do not have at least one instance of someone either not being responsible or not being competent at some point in the sequence of events.

In my opinion, things that go wrong at depth (including things that are out of your control like random equipment failures) are much harder to sort out before you are in potential danger. I'd rather deal with issues at the surface any day!

 

[Joneill]

The surface is dangerous because it is the part of the dive with the most irresponsible and incompetent activity by an order of magnitude.

I disagree - I've generally seen more dangerous behavior at depth - but that's just my experience.

 

[L13]

I disagree - I've generally seen more dangerous behavior at depth - but that's just my experience.

If, as you claim, depth is more inherently dangerous and there is more dangerous behavior at depth, why are there more incidents that originate at the surface (according to the data)? I find it hard to imagine an alternate to one or both of those explanations.

 

[Celt]

If we subtract the majority of the divers that die at the surface, because they are "absolutely ludicrous and they have no business in the water" then it isn't dangerous at the surface. Except, according to BSAC stats, they happened and they outnumber the ones at depth(in 2021 over 125, outnumbering all other depths, including unknown, combined).

Ludicrous or not, they are happening. (see post #42)

Have you read the report, there was 16 diving fatalities 3 attributed to heart attack. None as a result of an incident on the surface. There was 1 incident of an injury to a lady pulled under the dive boat and suffering lacerations to her legs by the propeller.

 

[Joneill]

If, as you claim, depth is more inherently dangerous and there is more dangerous behavior at depth, why are there more incidents that originate at the surface (according to the data)? I find it hard to imagine an alternate to one or both of those explanations.

First: you assume all incidents are reported... I doubt the data is complete and doesn't capture the many near misses that happen all the time.

Second: I did not claim that "depth is more inherently dangerous and there is more dangerous behavior at depth" - I said that things that go wrong at depth are harder to sort out before they become dangerous and that I've seen more dangerous behavior at depth (vs surface) - things like almost running out of air, bolting for the surface, entering overheads and silting out due to crap technique, to name a few.

In any case, I was merely answering the broad question that the Op posed which was "Is the surface the most dangerous part of the dive? What do you think?" - I stand by my answer and that is what I think! Feel free to think otherwise as you will not be changing my mind!

 

[pauldw]

I've looked at the BSAC incident report for 2022. The highest number of incidents started at the surface, see graph.

NO NO NO NO NO! "Surface," in the context of this thread and of the video, has to do with the surface away from the shoreline, as in the surface next to a boat. You're showing a chart that shows that surf is dangerous. Of course surf is dangerous! Far more dangerous than getting off or getting onto a boat.

 

[L13]

Have you read the report, there was 16 diving fatalities 3 attributed to heart attack. None as a result of an incident on the surface. There was 1 incident of an injury to a lady pulled under the dive boat and suffering lacerations to her legs by the propeller.

If you didn't die, it wasn't dangerous? There were 235 incidents.

Of the 16 deaths, 4 were heart attacks or other natural causes. 3 were last seen deploying a DSMB to surface cause unknown drowning. and 2 were "missing from the charter boat." Leaving 7 that were definitively at depth related (though the HA's were at depth and may have been survivable on the surface, and the other 5 DSMB/missing could also have been due to depth).

But! there were 235 incidents, 219 of which did not result in death. Over 125 of those the incident started at the surface. Boating/Surface and Injury each accounted for ~1/3 of surface originating incidents(~40 each). The leading single class of of incident was DCI (~60 incidents) which does start at depth and accounts for over 2/3 of the incidents starting at depth depth. the rest of the classes were less clearly split.

Depth is definitely more fatal. It is a little less clear which is more dangerous if you count deaths as more significant than survived incidents, which I do.

So maybe I should retract some of my certainty in the posts above.

Interestingly, 10 of the 16 fatalities were either diving alone, or were separated from their surviving buddies before the fatal event.

 

[L13]

NO NO NO NO NO! "Surface," in the context of this thread and of the video, has to do with the surface away from the shoreline, as in the surface next to a boat. You're showing a chart that shows that surf is dangerous. Of course surf is dangerous! Far more dangerous than getting off or getting onto a boat.

Not quite, it isn't a chart about surf. It is a chart about diving related incidents that started at the surface or were boating related.