Is the BP/W really the best BCD for recreational divers?

[WhiteSands]

I must have missed something because I basically just put my BP/W on and dive, including moving between 3mm, 7mm and drysuit. You probably spent more time writing your description of adjustments than I have on adjustments.

I really don't see how you can use the same adjustments on the harness without change on both a 3mm and 7mm wetsuit, and still expect it to fit optimally. We're bending the rules of physics now.

It's either going to be too tight in the 7mm, too loose in the 3mm, or both.

 

[RJP]

Please post side view pictures of an 11 yr old girl (typical sized for an 11-year old) with a standard sized Halcyon BP, adjusted to what you feel is the ideal adjustment.

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Here's Rachael F, in some photos taken by her dad shortly after her OW class earlier this year...

 

[WhiteSands]

Although everyone talks about this "stable platform," I found that at shallow depths with little air in the wing the rig wanted to roll me over; preventing roll required some small fin movement now and then. My guess is that at greater depths, where the wing is more inflated, the wing acts more like the platform people talk about "hanging" from. But the experience did make me think twice about adopting a BP/W for recreational warm-water diving where I'm just as likely to hang out on a 20-ft coral reef as anything else.

There are a few things I know that you can check for.

1. Check that the corrugated inflator hose isn't pressing down on the wing. If it is, it could prevent air from moving from one side to the other, and cause the problem you mentioned.

2. Check that the BP isn't being pushed around by your butt / hips. Have someone take a pictures of the BP on you from the side. A too long BP for your back will also cause this problem.

3. Have someone take a picture of you wearing the BP in the water from the top, check if the tank is perpendicular to your body.

The problems you mentioned mirror the issues my buddy was facing.

 

[RJP]

I really don't see how you can use the same adjustments on the harness without change on both a 3mm and 7mm wetsuit, and still expect it to fit optimally. We're bending the rules of physics now.

It's either going to be too tight in the 7mm, too loose in the 3mm, or both.

Don't confuse "not tight" with "too loose."

While I will ordinarily adjust the webbing when going from thicker exposure suit to a thinner exposure suit (because it takes about 30sec to do so) I would be perfectly comfortable keeping the webbing set for my thicker protection at all times. In fact, I usually do at least one dive this way when I travel for vacation... because I usually forget to think about adjust the webbing until I'm about to jump in the water for the first dive. Is it a little looser than needed? Sure, but not unusually or unreasonably so. It's along the lines of wearing a 42L suit when I'm actually only a 41L.

 

[WhiteSands]

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Here's Rachael F, in some photos taken by her dad shortly after her OW class earlier this year...

Referencing the first photo, she looks laterally unbalanced, and the rig is pulling her to one side. From what little can be seen of the BP, it is too long for her.

The top of the BP is way too high, and the bottom is digging into the butt, which will cause the whole rig to shift around. If you look at the 1st stage, it is clear the BP is too high (and yet cannot be moved any lower) and the 1st stage prevents her from moving her head up and looking straight ahead to gain proper posture.

If you look at the 2nd pic, you can see the tank being pulled to her left, and she's compensating for the unbalanced lateral weight shift with her posture.

If you remove the tank and wing on her and take a side view look at how the backplate hangs off her back, I am quite sure you will see the shoulder straps coming off the BP at more or less a 90 degree angle and contacting her shoulders (and hanging on only a small surface area) instead of hanging off her shoulders over a wider surface area. The weight of the rig will be resting on only a small part of the shoulders.

These are the same issues my buddy faced, which I brought up.

 

[RJP]

Referencing the first photo, she looks laterally unbalanced, and the rig is pulling her to one side. From what little can be seen of the BP, it is too long for her.

The top of the BP is way too high, and the bottom is digging into the butt, which will cause the whole rig to shift around. If you look at the 1st stage, it is clear the BP is too high (and yet cannot be moved any lower) and the 1st stage prevents her from moving her head up and looking straight ahead to gain proper posture.

If you look at the 2nd pic, you can see the tank being pulled to her left, and she's compensating for the unbalanced lateral weight shift with her posture.

If you remove the tank and wing on her and take a side view look at how the backplate hangs off her back, I am quite sure you will see the shoulder straps coming off the BP at more or less a 90 degree angle and contacting her shoulders (and hanging on only a small surface area) instead of hanging off her shoulders over a wider surface area. The weight of the rig will be resting on only a small part of the shoulders.

These are the same issues my buddy faced, which I brought up.

I think your looking at still shots of subject in motion... and finding things that aren't really there.
Will pass your comments on to the dad, a GUE-trained tech instructor. Rachael was rocking it with only her four AOW dives under belt at the time this photo was snapped. As girls go/grow I'd bet the regular length plate is probably fitting fine now, 9mo more of growing in the interim.

 

[WhiteSands]

I think your looking at still shots of subject in motion... and finding things that aren't really there.
Will pass your comments on to the dad, a GUE-trained tech instructor. Rachael was rocking it with only her four AOW dives under belt at the time this photo was snapped. As girls go/grow I'd bet the regular length plate is probably fitting fine now, 9mo more of growing in the interim.

I'm sorry, it's very clear from the second shot that the tank is lop-sided. You don't need to be a GUE instructor to see that.

As is the 1st stage preventing the head from coming upright, and the plate digging into the butt.

I'm really surprised this discussion has struck so many nerves, and is such a sensitive topic.

I started the thread merely to suggest that perhaps a BP/W may not be the right recommendation for all recreational divers, because of the potential problems they might encounter.

It's as if I've insulted someone's religion or something....

 

[Michael Guerrero]

Referencing the first photo, she looks laterally unbalanced, and the rig is pulling her to one side. From what little can be seen of the BP, it is too long for her.

I don't know. The tank looks like it might just be strapped on a little crooked to me, or she might be moving her head to one side to avoid the 1st stage. She probably should have been in double 50s instead. I'm sure those come in pink.

 

[WhiteSands]

I don't know. The tank looks like it might just be strapped on a little crooked to me, or she might be moving her head to one side to avoid the 1st stage. She probably should have been in double 50s instead. I'm sure those come in pink.

I think its the pink wing making it unbalanced. Everyone knows you should only use black gear.

 

[tphelps]

The most important features of a buoyancy system for the diver are 1) functionality and 2) comfort. I know when I FIRST started, I probably could not have done the BP/W because it was different from the jacket style I was trained in. And had I learned SCUBA in a BP/W, I might not appreciate it as much as I do now. It all comes down to preference. In my mind the most important thing is that you love diving YOUR BC. With more experience you will be able to discover your own preferences