Is the BP/W really the best BCD for recreational divers?

[WhiteSands]

Not sure why you think this is the case. I was in St. Croix two weeks ago in a 3 mm shorty wetsuit diving an aluminum 80, and I'm going to our local quarry tomorrow with my doubles and my dry suit. I never change a thing on my harness, never have since it was set up a few years ago.

Probably because the water temps you're diving is the same?

In the past 3 months I've had to resize my harness twice. From 3mm wetsuit, to Drysuit with 4th Element Drybase + Arctics, and back to Drysuit + Drybase alone.

- First you've got to size the shoulder straps just right. Too loose and you're going to have problems clipping double enders to shoulder D-rings. Too tight and its going to be a pain to don & doff.
- Next you have to ensure that the plate is perfectly straight. Takes a couple more adjustments.
- Sometimes you need to readjust the tightness again after adjusting straightness.
- Next, because you resized the shoulder straps, all the weight pouches, knife pouch, waist D-ring needs to be shifted.
- Buckle position needs to be re-adjusted to fit the thickness of undergarments
- Finally crotch strap needs to be adjusted.

That's true, although the knowledge isn't THAT hard to come by... but I agree, if you buy a BP/W, it's a good idea to have a knowledgable instructor or dive shop owner help you set it up the first time. Not sure why that's a negative, I would much rather have my expensive dive gear set up correctly than just buy a one-size-fits-all piece of gear to avoid doing it right...

I had an instructor look it over actually, but as time is limited and there were others in the class, he didn't and can't really be expected to help me get things exactly right.
Information is out there, but often contradicting.

E.g. DGE's instructions say the shoulder straps should be loose enough to allow a fist through. I tried it and it was way too loose. GUE's instructions says a palm should fit through when you're bent over 90 degrees. That's much closer. My LDS owner from another tech agency says only 3 fingers should be able to get through. Gearing up is going to be tough.

Then there's backplate height. AG hangs his very low. JJ hangs his much higher.

If you had the choice between wearing a custom tailored suit (that the tailor could make for you in less than an hour) or something off the rack that was pretty close to your size, and the price was about the same, which would you prefer?

Problem is I am the tailor and I keep needing to re-tailor the suit whenever my undergarment needs change.

Yes, I'm in favor of selecting and setting up my gear correctly. So I would definitely recommend that if you buy dive gear, you buy the correct size. A BP/W is much more likely to be able to fit a "non-standard" sized person correctly than a jacket BC that comes in small, medium and large.

That wasn't really the issue. The real issue is availability of backplates in different sizes. AFAIK only Halcyon and DSS sells them? That's a problem for people with non standard sized backs (like my buddy).

Again, not sure where you are getting this from. When I put my BP/W on in warm water configuration, it feels like I'm throwing on a sweater. I'll bet I can get geared up just as quick as you can, even including the crotch strap. Buckles are mainly an advantage if you have shoulder mobility issues, not really for speed, IMHO.

Some instructors and sizing guides will probably say the harness is way too loose.

Well, you can certainly leave out one of the cam bands if you feel that the extra one is a negative instead of a positive. I have seen many divers with jacket BC's struggling underwater when their tank slipped out of their single cam band, so when I dive single tank, I'm happy to have two bands...

I think it's probably due to improperly tightened bands than because it's a single band?

I'm not sure why you think that this is a BC issue. A weight integrated jacket BC would be just as heavy as a BP/W with weight pockets, and either type could be used with either pockets or a weight belt. The difference of course would be that the BP/W would have the weight spread out between the backplate and the weights. And the jacket BC would need more weight because it is positively buoyant and you need weight to sink that padding, etc...

With a single band, you only need to pull up so far. With double bands, you need to pull it out all the way, the entire length of the plate. When on a crowded boat with limited space, it makes a very big difference. Speaking from experience actually.

 

[doctormike]

Probably because the water temps you're diving is the same?

Nope. St. Croix was around 82F, Quarry is in the 40s this time of year!

In the past 3 months I've had to resize my harness twice. From 3mm wetsuit, to Drysuit with 4th Element Drybase + Arctics, and back to Drysuit + Drybase alone.

I guess different people have different experiences on this front. My BP/W harness fits me very comfortably without the need for adjustment over a wide range of exposure suits. But if you are really having so much trouble with that, then maybe the BP/W isn't for you. I'm assuming that you are diving single tank with your dry suit?

I had an instructor look it over actually, but as time is limited and there were others in the class, he didn't and can't really be expected to help me get things exactly right.

Yeah, I agree, you can't expect to grab an instructor during a class and ask him to spend a lot time working on your gear. That would usually be done by the dive shop that sold you the gear, or if you bought online, maybe a private session with a good instructor to get things optimized.

Problem is I am the tailor and I keep needing to re-tailor the suit whenever my undergarment needs change.

Yes, I agree, if for whatever reason you find that you need to continually re-adjust your harness, then that would be a reason to go with a jacket so that you could use the same BC with different exposure suits. Not sure that I can remember running into anyone who had that problem, but I believe you if you say that's the case.

I think it's probably due to improperly tightened bands than because it's a single band?

Maybe, but two bands give you twice the grip, so less likely to happen. Also makes for a more stable connection between tank and BC, IMHO.

With a single band, you only need to pull up so far. With double bands, you need to pull it out all the way, the entire length of the plate. When on a crowded boat with limited space, it makes a very big difference. Speaking from experience actually.

I guess. I have been doing my single tank diving with the same backplate that I use in cold water with doubles, using a single tank adapter with two bands, for many years. It never occurred to me that this was even an issue, or that I would want to remove one of the bands to make it easier to change tanks. But if this is a problem for you, then I guess jacket BC would be the way to go...!

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I have a backplate for diving in my wetsuit, a 3mm with the harness adjusted for that.
The other is adjusted for my drysuit, wearing a thick undergarment.

Adjustment......I can get the whole fist in there.

I have used the drysuit one while wearing a wetsuit....it's not an issue either way. I ended up with multiple plates over time, and decided to set one up for a wetsuit, but it's not really necessary.

 

[Nwcid]

No, a BPW is not right for ALL. There is NO piece of gear that is right for ALL. But for most that use them they are very happy and have no troubles with them, or they would have changed to something else.

Most of your "complaints" about BPW are things that have to be dealt with using any BC. Just the procedures are different.

 

[eelnoraa]

I would say bp/w isn't the best and last BC, definitely not for recreation diver, may not necessary for tech diver either. As most everything else, it is more of a personal preference.

Have that said, I prefer bp/w with basic harness. I have no issue adjusting shoulder harness or d-ring or crothc scrach on the fly within minutes. It is all most know how the fit should feel like. In fact, some instructors are so good, that once I showed up to a dive site once without my back plate. He took a quick glance at me (I am 5'6"), made some adjustment to his own bp (his is 6'7"). When I put it on, everything is within a inch of what I needed.

I also prefer two camband than one. Even if I go back to jacket BC, I will choose one with two cambands.

I do have a dive buddy that prefer Back inflate to bp/w. He even bought a Halcyon Inifniti to replace his Zeagle Ranger, but after a few dive, he sold Infinity and kept the Ranger. I totally understand why he prefer Ranger for his need, it is just now my choice,

 

[Insta-Gator]

Whitesands...

I would say the best BCD for any diver is the one they are most competent in. Not comfortable, competent. Yes, comfort will generally lead to competence or vice versa. If a 3mil trash bag can reliably optimize your buoyancy, trim and ascent control, then use a 3mil trash bag. Divers should be competent, not necessarily fashionable. Some folk change gear for the wrong reasons.

If you perceive that list of complications in using a BP/W, then it may not be for you, or you may not have mastered your kit yet. I only do rec dives. I use a BP/W, and I'm always the first one in our group who is suited up and ready to dive. My kit is very simple and I do not do all those adjustments you mentioned. I took me about 10 dives to figure out what worked for me, in either a 3mm jumpsuit or a 5mm jumpsuit. Now it's set and I leave it alone.

 

[Johanan]

I have not observed such a big difference between a jacket and a bp&w in how they behave in the water or during donning and doffing. For me as a recreational diver the real advantage of a bp&v is that it is so much, much easiear to rinse, dry and store. It saves the evening after diving.

 

[cb5150]

Universally recommended?? Says who?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

On my BP/W.. I make the shoulder and waist strap adjustable, often add a chest strap, renove one of the tank bands and some times have to cut a new slot in the BP to accommodate a central cam band, I add a STA and bolt it to the BP, so it is one unit that is fixed and stays together, I add an elastic loop for the crotch strap (and avoid using it when diving in a thin suit), I avoid weight pockets.... and after all of that... most of the OP's complaints are addressed...

 

[WhiteSands]

Whitesands...

I would say the best BCD for any diver is the one they are most competent in. Not comfortable, competent. Yes, comfort will generally lead to competence or vice versa. If a 3mil trash bag can reliably optimize your buoyancy, trim and ascent control, then use a 3mil trash bag. Divers should be competent, not necessarily fashionable. Some folk change gear for the wrong reasons.

If you perceive that list of complications in using a BP/W, then it may not be for you, or you may not have mastered your kit yet. I only do rec dives. I use a BP/W, and I'm always the first one in our group who is suited up and ready to dive. My kit is very simple and I do not do all those adjustments you mentioned. I took me about 10 dives to figure out what worked for me, in either a 3mm jumpsuit or a 5mm jumpsuit. Now it's set and I leave it alone.

I've spent so much time tinkering with mine and my buddy's trying to work out all the problems, that I'm pretty comfortable with mine now. My thoughts arised because of my own experience, and also watching a number of other divers struggling with BP/W systems. I know I'm not alone because I've had 3 people asking me for help on setting theirs up now. Two had their rigs slide all over their backs in the water. One had a too loose shoulder strap, the other a BP that's too large. Another had positioned the BP too high causing problems with the 1st stage hitting the head.

I'm fortunate to have gone through training from an agency that teaches using the BP/W. Others who bought their gear then had to figure it out on their own (without help from the folks on SB) aren't so lucky.

I'm surprised to hear so many on this thread saying they had an easy time setting theirs up. It certainly wasn't my experience, and I had to go through multiple iterations and speaking to several instructors to finally get it setup well.

---------- Post added December 31st, 2013 at 09:59 PM ----------

I have not observed such a big difference between a jacket and a bp&w in how they behave in the water or during donning and doffing. For me as a recreational diver the real advantage of a bp&v is that it is so much, much easiear to rinse, dry and store. It saves the evening after diving.

Agreed. It's much lighter when wet too.