Is Suunto really that bad

[Bubbletrubble]

I have the Cobra 2. Just dove with a buddy sunday on a gorgeous lake dive on a wall, profile to 130. Buddy had a Galileo (buddy is DIR) which gave us 3 stops based on a bottom time of 5 minutes. I consider that very conservative and my Cobra only gave me the 3 min stop at 18 feet. Just adding to the discussion, don't want to start a thread on deep diving vs. computer brand. Just wanted to say that I would rather do a couple safety stops than one even though I'm sure that would be an entirely new thread.

@SeahorseDeb: So did you and your buddy do the 3 stops specified by the Galileo or the 1 stop indicated by the Cobra2? Just curious. I realize that your post implies that the Suunto algorithm might not be as "conservative" as people say. It's an interesting point.

On a related note, how often do you let your dive computer dictate the depth and duration of your safety stops? I ask this because I very rarely only do the 3 min stop between 10 and 20 fsw that my Suunto computer specifies. On deeper dives, I'll generally do multiple deep stops and extend the shallow stop to 5 - 10 min. My Suunto follows along just fine.

 

[beekeeper5]

I have a Suunto and my dive buddies say it's a very conservative dive computer -- I have to agree and I'm ok with that. I don't mind it being conservative if it means being ok to dive the next time. My setting is set to cold water and it's adjustable.

I did hit the "NO DEC TIME" limit over the weekend (first time) and I was surprised to see that. My buddies had an Oceanic/Uwatec and they were both ok (they still had time for another dive). Nevertheless, we ascended and while we did the usual safety stops, I still violated the decompression ceiling. Now, all I see is a big "Er" for the next 48 hours. On the bright side, my Zoop is now in "gauge mode", just like a Vyper.

And yes, it's been over 48 hours and I'm ok.

 

[jh_MacLeod]

@SeahorseDeb: So did you and your buddy do the 3 stops specified by the Galileo or the 1 stop indicated by the Cobra2? Just curious. I realize that your post implies that the Suunto algorithm might not be as "conservative" as people say. It's an interesting point.

On a related note, how often do you let your dive computer dictate the depth and duration of your safety stops? I ask this because I very rarely only do the 3 min stop between 10 and 20 fsw that my Suunto computer specifies. On deeper dives, I'll generally do multiple deep stops and extend the shallow stop to 5 - 10 min. My Suunto follows along just fine.

But without knowing how the Galileo was set up, it doesn't provide a very useful comparison. My guess is to get 3 recommended stops from 5 minutes at 130 ft., PDIS (deep stop) was turned on and the MicroBubble level was L3 or more... a fairly conservative configuration.

 

[Wantonmien]

I keep reading about everyone saying to stay away from Suunto because of the conservative algorithm. Is it really that bad - for a new diver? I'd really like to consider it. I like the Veo 3.0 dual-algorithm also.

Galvanni

After passing OW last year I (and my normal buddy) bought ourselves Suunto D4

I have no problem with it, and when diving with others with different makes/models it doesn't strike me as being 'too' conservative ~ and having now used it for approaching 100 dives, dropped it several times, accidentally left it baking in the sun on car dashboard and other such abuse - it seems pretty reliable to me.

My only Qualm is that I didn't buy a model to help a little with the navigation ~ I think that is the D9 model.

Cheers

 

[rongoodman]

I think the issue with the Suuntos is that the algorithm is proprietary, and it's not clear what it's going to do, unlike VPM or Buhlmann GF. It isn't RGBM, though, they just bought the rights to use the name.

 

[vladimir]

My only Qualm is that I didn't buy a model to help a little with the navigation ~ I think that is the D9 model.

The D9 does indeed have an electronic compass, which I like mostly because I don't have much use for a compass. So it's nice to have one on those rare occasions that I need it without having to bring another piece of equipment. If I did a lot of navigating I would prefer a separate compass, like the SK7.

 

[FritzCat66]

The main thing it does that people have a problem with is penalizing you on subsequent dives for are short/omitted stops on previous dives, especially after relatively rapid ascents, especially on dives deeper than 100fsw.

Well, one other common problem I've seen on the boats is the people with Suunto's seem to get penalized for anything less than a full 60-minute surface interval between dives. Sure, a full hour is good practice, but if you've done 47 minutes, that should just roll into the calcs on the next dive.

Buy a liberal computer and YOU can always dial back the length of your dive. The best dive computer out there is the one between your ears anyway.

Agreed. The Sherwoods are about the most liberal computers out there, and I don't just say that, there have been a couple of reviews comparing various computer outputs during multiple simulated dives at various real-world depths and only on rare points in the spreadsheet were the Sherwoods NOT showing the longest remaining no-deco times. One was attached to a recent thread here on SB, but unfortunately I cannot locate it right now - especially after multiple dives, the differences between the computers were very eye-opening.

While I like my Sherwood, I think it's important to know how generous it is, so I know not to "push it", to treat those numbers as an absolute value. But yeah, I would prefer to do that myself rather than dial back my computer and have it give me restrictive numbers and penalties if I push them.

To me, having my computer "pre-conservatize" the numbers would be like, if I were always running a little bit late, setting my clock forward 10 minutes so it always looks like it's later than it really is so I could actually be more on time. While that may work for some people, I would rather prefer to have my clock show accurate time and just work on my personal discipline.

Not to suggest that there are anything like perfectly, atomically-accurate calculations for nitrogen absorption and offgassing, however - I know it's a highly speculative science behind those algorithms - but you get my point: let me be the "conservatizer", not the computer.

 

[Skooter]

Before I swithched from my sherwood wisdom to my suunto D9 I put them together on the same dive to compare the ndl. Surprisingly the wisdom went into deco while the D9 still had 3 minutes no deco time. I agree the suunto computers can be more conservative if you don't follow good diving practices ie slow accents, safety stops, yo-yo profiles etc. But like others I am ok with that. If I goof up I get penalized. To me that is what a computer should do.

 

[vladimir]

To me, having my computer "pre-conservatize" the numbers would be like, if I were always running a little bit late, setting my clock forward 10 minutes so it always looks like it's later than it really is so I could actually be more on time. While that may work for some people, I would rather prefer to have my clock show accurate time and just work on my personal discipline.

Not to suggest that there are anything like perfectly, atomically-accurate calculations for nitrogen absorption and offgassing, however - I know it's a highly speculative science behind those algorithms - but you get my point: let me be the "conservatizer", not the computer.

I see your point, and I like the watch analogy. How about after a week of 4-dives per day, including 2 reverse profiles, 3 saw-tooth profiles, 3 ragged ascents in the surge, 1 short surface interval, and 1 missed safety stop due to an up-current? Are you still a better "conservatizer" than the computer?

 

[Lead_carrier]

I had a Suunto, and now I have an Uwatec, and in the kinds of dives I do I never noticed a difference.

I would be a lot more interested in the features, price, and what kind of support network there is where you live. For example, if I need the battery in my Suunto replaced, I have to mail it off. My Uwatec, I can do myself.

Which Suunto did you have that you had to mail off and which Uwatec do you have that has a user replaceable battery? I been around both for a long time and I found that there were a lot more Suunto products with user-replaceable batteries than Uwatecs.

OP,
Personally, I kinda like the conservatism. I also do like the Uwatec Smart series, but like was stated previously, the best computer is between the ears. Don't get any computer and just do "trust me" dives on it. Use your brain and keep it sharp.