Is Side Mount the new DIR??? Building resentment towards us as a group...

[The Chairman]

Bill Gavin wasn't a gue instructor and that article was written by George Irvine who was also not a gue instructor.

I believe this was in response to Beester's "I don't know DIR" comment. That was the article that really got the ball rolling and established rule number one: Don't dive with strokes! It's my opinion GUE has gone to great lengths to divorce themselves from the DIR movement. It might be their roots, but they don't want to come across as DIR at all.

 

[OrangeCountyScuba]

@NetDoc
Helmets are pretty common in cave country, is that what you are referring to? Have you ever seen any issues with helmets becoming a snag point or hindering the use of your rig?

Ok, I am going to plead ignorance to the subtleties of DIR vs GUE. I am not friends or dive with anyone who has any real ties to either movement. Hence, why I asked the question to you earlier @NetDoc on who is coming up with the standards for DIR as the industry progresses. As I was led to believe from speaking to quite a few GUE divers, that GUE was DIR but I seem to have been misled. Anyone want to comment on this?

 

[LiteHedded]

The term DIR isn't used anymore by GUE. But all the principles remain the same. They still don't think you should dive with unsafe divers, still use the same gases, still standardize gear etc.

The only people I know using that term have gotten the boot from GUE and have started doing their own thing

 

[The Chairman]

@OrangeCountyScuba If you hang your long hose around your neck, then the helmet can interfere with deployment. It doesn't have to and that's what training is all about. On sidemount, I never loop hoses around my neck.

DIR is dying a slow, slow death. It's a philosophy of diving that's better translated by either GUE or UTD. GI3 gave it a death sentence even as he birthed it by his harangues on the interwebs. Unfortunately, many of the people who liked his smash mouth attitude gravitated to him and then started imitating him, giving DIR a really bad reputation. Such was the environment of rec.scuba and it was those same blow hards that gave forums like DiverLink and ScubaBoard a chance to grow rapidly. In contrast, peeps like TS&M worked tirelessly to reverse the damage done by a few. Currently, there is no governing body to declare who's a stroke and who's a DIR God. That gets duked out on the forums, facebook and probably on some usenets that still exist. I wonder if Quest is still around?

 

[LiteHedded]

Quest magazine is released quarterly I believe

 

[The Chairman]

Yeah, I was referring to their infamous usegroup.

 

[LiteHedded]

I would be surprised if the email list was active. Or if ANY email list was anywhere

 

[OrangeCountyScuba]

Thank you @LiteHedded and @NetDoc for answering the question. Again, just curious but why would someone get the boot from GUE for claiming DIR, since it seems like that is where GUE's foundation came from?
I am well aware of many who take GUE classes that consider themselves god's gift to diving after but know some that are the complete opposite. Is it more a result of extreme prejudice within GUE against other divers that has led to the split from DIR?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

@NetDoc
Ok, I am going to plead ignorance to the subtleties of DIR vs GUE. I am not friends or dive with anyone who has any real ties to either movement. Hence, why I asked the question to you earlier @NetDoc on who is coming up with the standards for DIR as the industry progresses. As I was led to believe from speaking to quite a few GUE divers, that GUE was DIR but I seem to have been misled. Anyone want to comment on this?

GUE and DIR were synonymous up till a few years ago, when Georgitsis was kicked out of the club and went on to start his own brand (5th D-X then UTD). Then a few equipment manufacturers came out with products that they claimed were "DIR" (mostly they weren't), and GUE decided it was in its own best interest to separate itself from the term.

I've been friends with and dived with quite a few DIR adherents over the years, including the late TS&M who was quite involved in the DIR community. I've also worked for the only dive shop in the Seattle area that offers GUE classes. And the only people I've ever seen or heard conducting themselves the way that DIR adherents are frequently portrayed on the internet have been recent Fundies grads ... with two exceptions always young males who are trying hard to convince themselves that they are no longer "strokish". It's why we invoked the 30-day rule proscribing said adherents from discussing DIR with anyone until the cooling-off period has expired. The real DIR divers ... the ones who genuinely walk the walk ... are pretty much without exception very nice people.

I took Fundies more than a decade ago ... twice, in fact. Hated it the first time, loved it the second ... different instructors made all the difference to me. After dipping my toe in that pond, I decided it wasn't for me ... seemed a bit more regimented than I was comfortable with. I was still welcomed into the shop (still am), and still invited to do dives with my friends who continued following the DIR way of diving (both GUE and UTD). And even when I got into solo diving, although several expressed some concern, not a single one ever uttered a derogatory word about my choices.

I can't speak for how it is elsewhere ... although I've experienced High Springs and the politics seems almost ridiculous to me ... but our local GUE community (with a few notable exceptions over the years) has mostly comprised people who generally treat others in the greater dive community respectfully, even when they have concerns about how some of them are approaching their dives. I've learned a lot from those people over the years, and maintain friendships with many of them today.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[kelemvor]

@kelemvor I've never seen a climbing helmet with foam inserts. I've seen them in bicycle helmets, but not climbing helmets. I've never heard of either of those arguments either. Not sure if we are experiencing an ESL issue here or not. They are pretty common here in cave country.

You must have got your responses mixed up. I haven't commented on helmets in this thread until now. I have a helmet. It's a light monkey and isn't floaty - it's made for diving.