Is safe second really needed?

[Teamcasa]

There are internet experts for sure, Captain is not one of them, owned his own shop, professionally skippered his own boat for hire, licensed skipper, been a diver all of his life. At some point the dogma must bend to reality, there are those who are simply trying to point out that you can dive however you wish

Agreed.

but in fact much of the equipment we use today is not really needed in all circumstances and a diver who chooses not to use all of the extra stuff is not dangerous or foolish, there is a different path for those who seek minimalism. If this challenges some divers, causes others to become angry and give "evil" stares etc, just take a Prozac and learn to deal with the fact that there are people who will never "conform" ever.

It does not challenge me. If you like diving in a minimalist fashion it is fine with me. I think the challenges came more from those who think that diving with an octo is somehow dangerous and displays some lack of basic training.

I dive mostly here in SoCal where the water is colder, the vis if unpredictable and current come up or changes without so much as a courtesy call. We take the added precaution of an octo and some dive with a redundant air supply. We like it that way. You dive the way you guys like and so do we.

The basic question has been asked and answered.
If you want to expand on the merits of minimalist diving in tropical conditions vs cold water, go for it - in a new thread.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Like Dave said ... dive however you like.

What some of you guys seem to be doing is taking the position that anybody who doesn't dive the minimalist style is relying on gear to solve a deficiency in skills.

I don't think that's the case at all. Nor do I think you need to use that logic to rationalize your own choices.

Whatever floats your boat ... and all that ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Matt S.]

"Boutique" courses? Wow. Way to insult 99% of the world's divers. This thread has turned into a flaming wreck.

- Iceman

 

[pittyyofool]

wrecks don't burn underwater.

I am not insulated at all. by the term "Boutique" courses, I think it is appropriate. Who said you need a plastic card to display your knowledge. there are other ways of learning it. I have a truck load of 20cent plastic cards saying I know one thing or the other. but to tell you the truth I knew and had done 90% of that stuff before I ever took a class for it. The only reason I have cards above jr.open water diver, is because when I was 17 one of my buddies was a young instructor. when I turned 18 he handed me the test for almost every class and told me to fill them out. (I passed all but nitrox, which he thought me later) (after the tests he also loaned me all his books and said read them) We went on about 5-6 dives to practice the skills that I had not yet naturally exhibited. After the dives he charged me $20 for each card, and I was in AI training just like that. IMO cards are there to make you feel better, just like a lot of other things we have.

-Goose

 

[Thalassamania]

If you really feel the need to get into the worth, or worthlessness, of the PADI Master Diver recognition progam, a thread exists for that purpose. Take it there, please.

 

[Nemrod]

Agreed.



It does not challenge me. If you like diving in a minimalist fashion it is fine with me. I think the challenges came more from those who think that diving with an octo is somehow dangerous and displays some lack of basic training.

I dive mostly here in SoCal where the water is colder, the vis if unpredictable and current come up or changes without so much as a courtesy call. We take the added precaution of an octo and some dive with a redundant air supply. We like it that way. You dive the way you guys like and so do we.

The basic question has been asked and answered.
If you want to expand on the merits of minimalist diving in tropical conditions vs cold water, go for it - in a new thread.

When I said "challenges" I should have said challenges the dogma (thinking) of some divers and agencies, thank you for pointing that out as being to generic and non specific. The rest I will stay with thank you.

I will leave it to the OP to determine when his thread is done.

N

 

[Nemrod]

"Boutique" courses? Wow. Way to insult 99% of the world's divers. This thread has turned into a flaming wreck.

- Iceman

Are you on fire what, your PadI Peak Buoyancy and Fish ID class not going well today or something Bad hair day I guess. .

Hey, don't get wound up over nothing just because we are not going to do as you say, if it wasn't that it would be something else. :cool2: Got to give you something to be in a fuss over. Just trying to help out.

We guys will dive the way we want to and you guys dive the way you want to, leave the "dirty" looks for something else. Sounds fair. But it never works that way, always gotta be some busybody about minding to others business and trying to force conformation to their set of rules, thus the origin of the thread and our fundamental disagreements.

Mars will not be as large as the moon to the naked eye on August 27, 2008. That is an email hoax that goes back to 2006 and then before that as long ago as 1986. So, if you are standing outside waiting to see Mars as large as a full moon, you will be about as disappointed as you will be if you expect to see me show up for the PadI Drift Diver and Scuba Scooter boutique class with you. I would as soon go to a nudist colony for the extra obese and go scuba diving with a Spare Air strapped to my aXX.

I am sorry, I should not pick at you, I know you are just playing hard to get .

N

 

[muddiver]

Wow! Someone's on a roll.

 

[muddiver]

Like Dave said ... dive however you like.

What some of you guys seem to be doing is taking the position that anybody who doesn't dive the minimalist style is relying on gear to solve a deficiency in skills.

I don't think that's the case at all. Nor do I think you need to use that logic to rationalize your own choices.

Whatever floats your boat ... and all that ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Ok, I think that we are a lot closer to being on the same wave length here. I don't disparage the use of an octo, I just pointed out that it is just not the ONLY way to solve the problem of an OOA.

Unfortunatly, after talking to the local instructor/LDS owner, it seems that having one on your rig is being mandated by some boat operators. At least his story was that he was told he could not dive from the boat without one.

So much for you dive your way, and I'll dive mine when service providers start enforcing one standard of diving.

 

[The Kraken]

"Is safe second (octo) really needed for open water diving?"

No. . .

. . . if one bases the definition of "need" as a device without which an open water dive cannot be either initiated or accomplished.

Can you make a dive without one, yes, pure and simple.

However, you may not be able to find a dive buddy, but you can dive without one of those also.

the K