Is it OK to turn off O2 in Rebreather Training?

[Superlyte27]

Seriously this is a terrible idea "testing" students with a loop/machine that does not support life - unless its on the couch/picnic table I'm saying no bloody way.

Look, my name is on their card FOREVER. At some point people are going to forget to turn on oxygen. It's going to happen. If your name was going on their card, wouldn't you rather know for certain they are bright enough to catch it, while supervised, than find out they weren't while dead and unsupervised?

This is a deal breaker for me. You "die" in a simulation, you're probably not getting a card from me. I have to know you're going to live.

I only have one student that I'm ashamed of. He's the only one I fear might not make it if he doesn't grow up. You have to be rock solid. And I have to know that you're not going to miss the number 1 thing killing CCR divers.

 

[doctormike]

If you as an instructor can't pay attention for three minutes to see if the student catches the drill, you need to quit instructing

.... my name is on their card FOREVER. At some point people are going to forget to turn on oxygen. It's going to happen. If your name was going on their card, wouldn't you rather know for certain they are bright enough to catch it, while supervised, than find out they weren't while dead and unsupervised?

...I have to know that your not going to miss the number 1 thing killing CCR divers.

Exactly.

 

[Kay Dee]

You can go hypoxic on the surface even with your O2 ON! And the loop can drop out of their mouth and they can aspirate water leading to a life threatening lung infection even if the instructor turns on their O2 but they don't revive/awaken fast enough.

Hypoxic and loop comes out of your mouth.......at the surface as it were ........you could simply just drown. Sound familiar anyone?

 

[Dan]

Hypoxic and loop comes out of your mouth.......at the surface as it were ........you could simply just drown. Sound familiar anyone?

Yep, the whole 90 pages of discussion & several threads spun off it.

Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

 

[rjack321]

Mine is turned on as I leave the bench. I'm breathing it down the steps, listening to it fire. I've NEVER trusted the wet activation. Your loop should sustain life before you even put the DSV in your mouth.

Yet you turn off O2. Wont sustain life on the surface very long at all that way.

(at depth , say 80ft, is a different story - dont think its necessary but not immediately dangerous either)

 

[doctormike]

Yet you turn off O2. Wont sustain life on the surface very long at all that way.

(at depth , say 80ft, is a different story - dont think its necessary but not immediately dangerous either)

You know, I really respect all of the people objecting to this teaching method, but some these objections have a straw man quality to them. Even on the surface, it takes six minutes to become hypoxic. And Superlyte is not advocating just "turning off the O2" and leaving.

Let me ask you something. If the objection to the O2 shutoff is that (1) the student might be incapable of responding appropriately, and (2) the instructor might not intervene before the drill becomes lethal, why don't you have the same objection to a loop recovery drill? Wouldn't that situation become lethal much faster?

 

[kensuf]

I've had two very well known instructor trainers from two different agencies turn off my oxygen as part of my instructor level course to see if I was aware of the issue.

You were going through an IT program, not a user level program. Slight difference in level of expected competency and awareness.

FWIW, I had a lengthy discussion with an IT (and ITT) this past weekend about shutting down O2 during standard boom drills/etc. He was adamant that he did not want to see a student's O2 shut down, ever. He pointed out there are a number of ways to simulate shutting down O2 and cited the Blue Grotto fatality 2 years ago as part of his reasoning for why O2 should never be shut down.

 

[Superlyte27]

Yet you turn off O2. Wont sustain life on the surface very long at all that way.

(at depth , say 80ft, is a different story - dont think its necessary but not immediately dangerous either)

You either don't dive a rebreather, or don't understand the rebreather you dive. At 80' do you think the oxygen is consumed faster than on the surface?

 

[Superlyte27]

You were going through an IT program, not a user level program. Slight difference in level of expected competency and awareness.

FWIW, I had a lengthy discussion with an IT (and ITT) this past weekend about shutting down O2 during standard boom drills/etc. He was adamant that he did not want to see a student's O2 shut down, ever. He pointed out there are a number of ways to simulate shutting down O2 and cited the Blue Grotto fatality 2 years ago as part of his reasoning for why O2 should never be shut down.

The blue grotto scenario is different. The student wasn't capable of monitoring his ppo2 because of a blacked out mask. Our standards clearly state that the student must be able to monitor ppo2 at all times.

Look, whine all you want, but if a student isn't bright enough to know their oxygen is off, they are never getting a card from me. PERIOD.

 

[Superlyte27]

FWIW, I had a lengthy discussion with an IT (and ITT) this past weekend about shutting down O2 during standard boom drills/etc. He was adamant that he did not want to see a student's O2 shut down

Are all of that ITT past students still alive? Or have any of them died while diving? Lol.

I dare you to answer.