Is horizontal position really better?

[Dody]

One funny anecdote. We were in Koh Tao, met some german guys in a bar. We offered them to dive together the next day. When they arrived they had the full monty of equipment. Analyzers, mesh bags labeled Sea Sheperd Conservation Society, 45l dry bags, top of the line BP/W and regs, Garmin MK2i with T1 air integration and I told myself that I would learn a lot from them. Until they told me that they only had 26 dives under their belt .

 

[Dody]

The short answer is "no". Different conditions require different approaches.

The question behind the question is more important. Trim is usually only touched on in open water, and it's rarely defined adequately much less equated to being horizontal. I've even heard a few instructors explain it as not having a lot of danglies. Why? It's because, in an open ocean, you have little to restrict you from diving in most any attitude until you get to the bottom. It's then when your horrible trim wreaks havoc, both for the environment and your fellow divers. Unfortunately, the roto-tillers never see the clouds of silt they create. At their usual 45^o tilt they see only what's in front of them, while the mess they are creating is below and behind them. Consequently, I've seen horrible silters who believe their trim is impeccable. It amazes me just how much crap they stir up but think it's everyone else's problem and not theirs. Just like a few posters here on SB, actually, and thanks to the Mod who cleaned this thread up!!!

The real question then, is why are there so many divers that can't or won't dive horizontally when the conditions call for it? I don't really care how you dive 20 ft above the bottom, but why are you kicking the crap out of my reef when you're close? Why do you think we are being so unreasonable in wanting you to stop doing that? If you want to dive within an arm's length of the reef, but can't get horizontal and frog kick, then you're screwing it up. A soft horizontal flutter kick requires at least 4ft of clearance. An angled/overweighted flutter kick requires 10ft or more. However, a horizontal frog kick requires merely an inch or two, depending on your skill and situational awareness. It's my humble opinion that they aren't diving horizontally mostly because they can't. Few divers can hover two inches above the bottom, close their eyes for a minute or two and remain precisely where they started. Rather than commit the time, energy, and mental acuity needed to achieve this, it's easier to tell those who can that being horizontal is over-rated. Meh.

As for dive professionals having to dive in a supine position to herd their kittens: rubbish. Those are reminiscent of underwater forced marches as they try to push their herd to the next photo-op. I've taught and guided professionally, and the only time I do that is to show off or if we're at our safety stop and I'm mostly vertical already. It's easier to listen to what's happening around you and then lower your head and look between your fins if things don't sound right.

Interesting. I only have a little over a hundred dives and I am still learning. For example, I have realized that in narrow spaces, frog kick is not adequate even with my RK3. I « touch » around. I would rather do flutter or even better, modified flutter if I am close to the bottom. I thought it was crap for propulsion but I was surprised to see how powerful it is.

 

[The Chairman]

For example, I have realized that in narrow spaces, frog kick is not adequate

Did you read the first sentence of my post?

I rarely kick in narrow spaces, especially if there's current.

 

[Subcooled]

I do almost all of my dives in a horizontal position unless the environment dictates otherwise - or unless I am on a sightseeing tour and just floating there and watching. The question was a good one, though.

One of the strongest points in favor of being more or less horizontal is the ease of controlling your position in the water column with your fins. You can kick down if you're getting a little too light on your safety stop, you can do a couple of little back kicks to start an ascent, you can pivot around with a helicopter turn,

Why couldn't one do back kicks vertically and thus initiate a descent? With some practise I guess it would be doable.

and most importantly, you can head for a buddy in need of assistance, immediately!

if facing him as recommended, then true, but if you need to turn around first, then precious time is lost in a helicopter turn. Spinning in vertical position is fast and moving from vertical to horizontal is quite quick, too. I am assuming of course that you are not carrying doubles and two stages but dive wet and light.

Why give up that control if you don't have to?

Because I believe that better control is imaginary: you do best what you do the most. Everybody should learn how to maintain a good horizontal trim, though. It's really important for all the reasons mentioned in the posts above.

(Launching an SMB in particular comes to mind as a situation in which you might need to fin down in a hurry should things go sideways.)

So, you need to maintain a good horizontal trim so that you can get into a nose down position quickly? There are situations where this could be the case [and this could be discussed ad infinitum]. It's a bit amusing though, that you need trim to get out of it fast

 

[Lorenzoid]

Interesting. I only have a little over a hundred dives and I am still learning. For example, I have realized that in narrow spaces, frog kick is not adequate even with my RK3. I « touch » around. I would rather do flutter or even better, modified flutter if I am close to the bottom. I thought it was crap for propulsion but I was surprised to see how powerful it is.

Switching between frog and flutter based on the circumstances is taught in cave courses and possibly other courses. Instructors want to see you use the best kick for where you are. I only wish instructors would similarly “teach” that (at least in open water) it is “okay” to break horizontal trim to be in whatever position you deem best under the circumstances. Come to think of it, they do: in a cave, you need to follow the contour of the passage, and that may mean something other than horizontal trim.

 

[The Chairman]

Come to think of it, they do: in a cave, you need to follow the contour of the passage, and that may mean something other than horizontal trim.

You can't dive Madison Blue into the Godzilla Room without going vertical for a bit. It's a wonderful UW vista.

 

[Centrals]

Any agency offers propulsion technique speciality course?

 

[The Chairman]

Any agency offers propulsion technique speciality course?

Most of them do, but few are worth anything. NASE in particular DOESN'T offer one. They feel that learning the frog kick, as well as being trim and neutral should be an integral part of OW. I taught a diving trim/propulsion workshop for years and the first thing I told them was that there would be no card given for a remedial course.

 

[The Chairman]

Any agency offers propulsion technique speciality course?

Take a cavern course from any NSS-CDS instructor.

 

[Centrals]

Most of them do, but few are worth anything. NASE in particular DOESN'T offer one. They feel that learning the frog kick, as well as being trim and neutral should be an integral part of OW. I taught a diving trim/propulsion workshop for years and the first thing I told them was that there would be no card given for a remedial course.

I learnt all those techniques from IANTD Tec Wreck course 20yrs ago.
Some divers take courses because they like to collect card.
Can instructor offers specialty course which is not included in the "official" program offered?